Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mountain Farms Mall


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep Nominator has indicated that s/he is satisifed with the recent addition of sources to signify notability. The is only one other delete vote and has not given any particular reasons for deletion. --Polaron | Talk 18:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Mountain Farms Mall

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Cluttered page on a non-notable dead mall in Massachusetts which has been redeveloped as a strip mall. No sources could be found regarding either the old mall, or the new development in its place. Note especially the section that reads "The mall opened in 1975 with anchors ???". Also note that the links in the infobox are for Hampshire Mall, which is next door. I have a feeling that there might be a conflict of interest at work here, given the fact that it's placed in a non-existant category for W/S Development, and there are spamlinks to the official websites of every store in the mall. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletions.   --  Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. STORMTRACKER   94  13:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And you can keep your sock puppet at home, thanks. - Denimadept (talk) 18:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You honestly think Stormtracker's a sockpuppet of me? (Also note that you didn't list the accusation on the main sockpuppet page AND you didn't inform either of us.) Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 20:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I pulled that proposal since you're seeming too reasonable for that to be the case. Still, the way Stormtracker94 seems to echo you made me start thinking that way.  It might be helpful if he/she were to actually post reasons backing his position. "per nom" is unclear, at least to me.  As far as notifying you, why, even if I didn't yank the idea back out? - Denimadept (talk) 20:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It still would've been common courtesy to notify. No matter. Anyway, that user just happens to say "per nom" a lot; it doesn't mean that Stormtracker94 is a sockpuppet of anyone. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 20:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep I only created the article yesterday. The bad reference link is gone, and you seem to have missed that the second reference link was the correct one.  What's wrong with linking to the stores in the mall?  They're relevant to the mall. - Denimadept (talk) 13:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:SPAM and WP:EL. We don't need a crapload of external links. There are already links to each store's Wikipedia page (except for Sleepy's, which has none); if you go to the Wikipedia page for Wal-Mart, that page already provides an external link to Wal-Mart's official website, so you don't need to externally link it from the mall page too. There are no third-party references either, which is another reason why I brought the page up for deletion. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 14:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * So suggest deletion of those links, but calling for deletion less than a day after an article is created when there have been links pointing at the non-existant article is overkill. - Denimadept (talk) 15:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think that requesting deletion of an article 24 hours after its creation is overkill if the subject in question doesn't seem to meet notability criteria. In this case, it seems that the mall in question is/was not the subject of multiple reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 16:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you're setting your standards for "notable" too high. Most malls are not huge things.  And I see you're doing it in many places, too.  What are you trying to accomplish?? - Denimadept (talk) 18:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not going by my standards at all; I'm going by WP:N, which is Wikipedia's general criteria for notability. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 20:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm reading WP:N for a reminder, and its related Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions as well. You make a good argument for deletion, but I suggest that for at least the two articles I've looked at, not to speak of the other ~50 you proposed for deletion in the last day or so, what they need is time to develop, not get deleted out of hand like this.  And I'm working on that. - Denimadept (talk) 20:37, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, good to know that you're understanding my rationale for deletion. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 20:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I try to be reasonable. I still feel that this is notable enough, though the references involved are largely not on-line.  Most of the activity involving these two malls dates from the late 1970s through the 1990s.  While there's activity today, it's low level and doesn't get a lot of reporting.  The most recent story I'm aware of regarding the Hampshire Mall has to do with a bigger Wal*Mart proposed to go behind it perhaps to replace the existing Wal*Mart attached to the Mountain Farms Mall.  Other than that, there's not been much going on for a while.  Does that affect the notability of the two malls in the center of the Five Colleges (Massachusetts) area?  These are a large part of their available stores.  I realize that doesn't necessarily make them Notable. - Denimadept (talk) 20:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * (outdent) That probably won't be enough, but I'm glad to see that you've calmed down. I'm sorry if I got you worked up -- after all, you do seem to be contributing in good faith. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 20:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Then there's WP:NOEFFORT. This particular article is only 1 day old.  As you noted in your original note, I had a place where I placed "???", which was more of a placeholder than a finished line.  The unused category can be removed, though I added it because of the similar (but implemented) category under Hampshire Mall's owner  Pyramid.  I don't know, off-hand, what else they own, though they list such on their website.  I've not got sufficient interest in following that bit up, honestly.  My main interest on Wikipedia is bridges, not malls.  It's just that I'm sitting right now across the street (42.36023°N, -72.5487°W) from the Hampshire Mall, which is inextricably linked to its competitor Mountain Farms Mall across a secondary street.  So I took an interest.  A reference to the Wal*Mart issue may be found at  though that link may not work for non-subscribers.  There's also  but that article doesn't explicitly mention the malls, expecting the reader to know what they're talking about. - Denimadept (talk) 21:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's more. In the original version of the article, I had a "expand" template for the History section.  This is not a sign of an article in any kind of final or stable state. - Denimadept (talk) 21:26, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment is was canvassing for votes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shopping Centers.  Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 16:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve - This has enough information to keep, and it has plenty of room for improvement. bob rulz (talk) 16:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems that you are missing the point. Upon looking at the article, I noticed that it was a stub, and decided to set out expanding it. But I hit a dead-end since I couldn't find any reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 17:37, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And it's impossible that anyone else could succeed where you failed. I see. - Denimadept (talk) 17:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that it was impossible; on the contrary, it is possible that someone could step in and find reliable sources where I've failed (see WP:HEY). Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 18:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Your actions speak louder than your words. By moving for deletion, you're saying that this article can not be improved, you are unwilling to let anyone try, and that consensus is likely to be for deletion, or you wouldn't have bothered to make that effort.  If that's not what you meant to say, you should consider not making AfD proposals so quickly in future.  For this and whatever other articles on which you've already made that suggestion, it's too late.  You can vote "keep", but you can't retroactively remove the AfD motion, as I understand it.  - Denimadept (talk) 18:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Sprew (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep As with the Hampshire Mall there are indeed many reliable sources that talk about this mall - making it notable. I shall begin to reference them.
 * 1) Planet Fitness pumps up new home By Scott Merzbach STAFF WRITER The Daily Hampshire Gazette
 * 2) Hadley draws national retailers By SCOTT MERZBACH, Staff Writer The Daily Hampshire Gazette
 * 3) The Republican Homeless vets find champion Saturday, November 24, 2007 By NANCY H. GONTER
 * 4) Mountain Farms screens go dark By SARA SAFRANSKY, Staff Writer The Daily Hampshire Gazette
 * 5) Lawsuit challenges decision to approve Lowe'sBy Scott Merzbach Staff Writer Amherst Bulletin
 * 6) Mall mania slowly turns to malaise; Empty storefronts plague area centers By Ellen Barry, Globe Staff METRO/REGION; Pg. B1 The Boston Globe
 * Comment I have provided some reliable sources above. Additionally I think its important to point out that Mountain Farms Mall has actually been rejuvenated and been brought back from the brink to be a thriving shopping area. It was converted from a failed enclosed mall to an open format. There are no longer empty stores. Right next to it they have built a Manny's TV and appliances store, a bank, a KFC and an Econo Lodge. So its an important part of the commercial activity of Hadley and of the Pioneer Valley. At present they have also just started to build a Home Depot across the street. Hadley planners OK smaller Home Depot BY M. ELIZABETH ROMAN STAFF WRITER The Daily Hampshire Gazette. Sprew (talk) 06:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also tried to improve the article somewhat by expanding it a little. Sprew (talk) 09:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there is still the vestigial entrance I mentioned between Panera Bread and EMS. I've never tried to see if those doors are locked or not, as I assume they are. - Denimadept (talk) 14:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good job Sprew, the article looks much better now. I'd withdraw, but others have !voted "delete" so I can't. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 18:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.