Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moxie Raia (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. SpinningSpark 00:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Moxie Raia
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Not notable. Lacks coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Line Magazine is her talking abbout herself. The Hype Magazine and Examiner are not reliable sources. The Brain Music is not independent. The others are just postings of her video or remixes. Link from DRV does not provide any depth of coverage about her. Nothing significant. A search found nothing better. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:10, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  08:29, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  08:29, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  08:29, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 *  Speedy Delete G4 - I've tagged it as such as Delete she wasn't notable in October 2014 and sure as hell isn't notable now (BTW if you spot recreated articles you can CSD it If it's not any different from the prev article. – Davey 2010  Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 09:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It was restored by DRV here Deletion review/Log/2014 December 6 Wily D 10:13, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops I wasn't aware of that, Thanks for notifying me :) – Davey 2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 11:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Here is a source from Perez Hilton mention distinct style and a second source here  stating a song in the major motion picture teenage mutant ninja turtles. It appears she passes 1, 5, 7, and 10 on WP:BAND. Wikipedia technically requires one of the conditions she more than passes.  Valoem   talk   contrib  08:35, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * She has released zero albums so no pass on 5. Not her song so no pass on 10 (wouldn't pass even if it was). Hilton is not a reliable source so no pass on 7 ( and having a distinct style by itself does not pass either). You claim a pass on 1 but don't provide any depth of coverage from reliable sources. What sources do you think gets the pass? 01:22, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That !vote seems even more disingenuous when one reads the Hilton post properly. It does not mention distinct style. duffbeerforme (talk) 03:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 22:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment duffbeerformeThere are literally tons of mainstream sources covering her., , , also the source with tmz references her music as mix between "Miley Cyrus meets Lana Del Rey". So yes styles are mentioned there. Please refrain from blatantly false accusations of being disingenuous as such personal attacks are uncalled for. I highly recommend you read my rational and review wp:band.  Valoem   talk   contrib  03:41, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Passing mentions and non reliable sources.
 * He never said it was a distinct style. Him calling it a mix between "Miley Cyrus meets Lana Del Rey" does not make it a distinct style. A distinct style is not enough for WP:MUSIC.
 * I highly recommend you read your rational and review wp:band. Start with 5. "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)." Then count how many albums Raia has released. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:11, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Anyone can see those are not passing mentions especially the directlyrics source and Wp:band saying the following "A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, instrumentalist, etc.) may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria" she meets well over one. Valoem   talk   contrib  08:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Anyone can see that directlyrics is not a reliable source. The others? Wetpaint is a "Social Publishing Platform", not a reliable source. Idolator, short lightweight blog post, hey check out this song, trivial coverage of Raia. LA Daily News "But to warm up the stage, pop singer Moxie Raia is also slated to perform on the 5 Towers stage at Universal City Walk starting at 7 p.m. The East Coast native is expected to perform her single “Buffalo Bill,” which has been remixed by legendary DJ Tiesto. Raia plans to release her debut album later this year". No depth of coverage. You say she meets well over one. Which ones? Have you counted the number of albums she has released yet? duffbeerforme (talk) 12:47, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note She doesn't have to meet WP:MUSIC. It lists alternative guidelines for notability that are available to musical people in addition to the guidelines that are available to them under WP:GNG and WP:PERSON, not instead of them. By the way, I think the first reference is valid, the one with the Top 10 list, because it presupposes that she's a person who would be of interest to readers, i.e., it presupposes some degree of note. —Largo Plazo (talk) 03:50, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Delete looks like a case of WP:TOOSOON. Notability so far consists of one song on a soundtrack, not even an album yet.  Might have an article someday, but I don't think we're quite there yet. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  16:06, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 *  Weak d D elete Of Valoem's set of four links above, the first two give only passing mentions in articles about Steve Aoki, and the fourth is a passing mention in a WP:ROUTINE local event listing. This is the case with most of the references in the article. Where I hesitate is over the way the a couple of the articles that have any focus on her (such as Valoem's third reference) comment on how "she is about to become the 'next big thing' in music". Can we say someone is notable for being "about to be notable"? I thought this reference from the article was useful, insofar as it presupposes that the websites readers know who she is and would be interested in knowing what she tells us about herself. And then there's this full-on interview. In total, I've seen three or four sources that I feel qualify, but is that enough? So let's say this article wasn't posted until five years from now, and nothing more had been published about her in the interim. From that perspective I wouldn't feel that she hadn't attain notability, not just because her coverage was brief but because it was shallow, unlike the coverage of, say, flash-in-the-pan William Hung. So I'm leaning toward WP:TOOSOON, even while feeling it might not take much to tip her over to the other side. —Largo Plazo (talk) 14:36, 24 January 2015 (UTC) I'm strengthening my vote to a full Delete for two reasons. (1) It just sank in that WP:MUSIC is explicit about something I had a concern about: whether an interview can be used to support notability. An interview isn't independently giving us any information about its subject, it's all from the subject herself. I was also wondering whether the inclusion of these interviews really reflect interest on the part of the publications in the subject, or whether they're a matter of a person whom the sources have never even heard of before approaching them and asking "Will you please do an interview of me?" Regardless of the answers to my questions, WP:MUSIC openly excludes these interviews from consideration. (2) Unfortunately, Valoem's attempts to bring sources to our attention has backfired in my view. The conclusion I come to from the materials he's presented is that even a person who is actively trying to bring us appropriate sources can find only trivial mentions and interviews. —Largo Plazo (talk) 12:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 16:36, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've found a few more citations which use push her over the edge,, Rolling Stones, and (questionable source), She does in fact pass 1, 6, and 10 putting her well over WP:N. I hope this can change your opinion to Weak Keep.  Valoem   talk   contrib  18:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, Valoem. These are all passing mentions in content that's about other things. What the words "featuring a commanding hook by Los Angeles singer-songwriter Moxie Raia", for example, are about is the track "Shell Shocked". They aren't "significant coverage" of Moxie Raia that "addresses [her] directly and in detail". —Largo Plazo (talk) 19:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * These three sources here,  should be enough to push it over the guideline, specifically the first source, should it not? Plus if we included WP:BAND it does appear she passes.  Valoem   talk   contrib  20:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've already discounted all the mentions in articles about Steve Aoki. "Aoki teamed up with rising pop star Moxie Raia ..." isn't significant coverage of Moxie Raia. The Perez Hilton blurb is about her, but it says almost nothing about her, being really about the song. Still, it is evidence of being noticed. But it isn't new in this discussion: you mentioned it earlier. As for the Anthem interview, that's a good onebut it isn't new. It's one of the ones I already listed above. —Largo Plazo (talk) 22:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If you asking for a few more sources which have significant coverage to push her over the edge these should do,, , . Let me know what you think. Valoem   talk   contrib  05:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Let's look at your "new" sources. 1. Direct Lyrics. again. Nothing new there and it's still not a reliable source. It's a lyrics database. And it's just another publication "where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves" (see WP:MUSIC#1). 2,3 More of Moxie talking about herself. Nothing independent here. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Claiming she now passes number 6 hey? Let's look at that one. First part "Is an ensemble" ... She's not an ensemble so let's skip that bit. Next bit "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles". Which ensembles has she been a member of? None. No pass there. Another dodgy claim? duffbeerforme (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see a reason for this page to be deleted. A lot of singers have wiki pages lack information, go out and find better sources and information instead of deleting it. Dman41689 (talk) 20:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for notes on the pitfalls of making comparisons to other pages. The point here is that we can't find sources adequate to establish notability, as is required for subjects of Wikipedia articles. It isn't just a matter of whether the article has the information, it's a matter of whether it exists. —Largo Plazo (talk) 22:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.