Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Muntadar al-Zaidi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Muntadhar al Zaidi
The result was to keep the article.

Non-admin WP:SNOW close. No possible outcome other than keep due to overwhelming consensus. Mike R (talk) 14:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)


 * * "Wait" - probably Keep. I agree. The fact that this man was kindapped (and received much media attention for it), and saw other things in Iraq that traumatised him, will come to have significance. He is likely to be interviewed and to speak about his experiences. Not only that, but the possible mistreatment of him in Iraqi custody (or perhaps even US custody), will also get wide publicity. His actions are also one of the few notable public direct attacks on President Bush ever, by Iraqis or Americans. To many people he may come to symbolise something about the war. In fact I predict he will become - as someone said - as symbolic as the guy who stood in front of the tank in China. His experiences themselves - his BIOGRAPHY - itself, may come to stand for all Iraqis. I am stating these things as a media professional, not because of my own personal (complex) opinions on the war. It just seems to me that this is fairly obvious and predictable. His experiences - his BIOGRAPHY - will be extensively explored and will come to 'stand for' those of all Iraqis. To me, that's pretty obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenji (talk • contribs) 14:11, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The phantom-shoe-thrower from a recent press conference, who attempted to whack Bush in the head with his footwear. Whilst a commendable action, Wikipedia is not a newspaper and this person is only notable for one event thus failing WP:BLP1E Nanonic (talk) 03:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "Wait" wait for the story to unfold, before doing any action. He could become an Iraqi national hero or this incident could die down. We should wait a week before taking action. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.179.78 (talk) 01:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Rename to George W. Bush shoe throwing incident or something to that effect. The event is notable, but unless someone comes up with more sources, the guy himself probably isn't. Umbralcorax (talk) 04:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Renaming "shoe throwing incident" seems a bit silly. This is a guy who was made notable by an action - and considering his action made him front-page-main-story on many main news sources (such as BBC) says very notable to me.   Flying  Toaster  05:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He was not 'made notable', he received some minor, soon-to-be-forgotten, attention for a single act of no long-term consequences or impact. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 08:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure we have precedent for that. (1, 2)  Anyway, I'd say that the protests and fuss he's created since the incident cinch notability.   Flying  Toaster  19:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep because as this story continues to unfold, it is clearly neither minor, nor soon-to-be-forgotten, nor without long-term consequences. -Alexanderj (talk) 02:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * (Disclosure: Article creator) Keep or Rename per Umbralcorax. Thanks to the Secret Service and their good security, very few people throw any sort of projectile at sitting or former US Presidents. In that context, I believe this Muntadar al-Zaidi is notable for being a member of that small group, if nothing else. More news references can be added if needed. -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 05:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For the record, Brhaspati was the second person to create a duplicate article having been beaten to the punch by User:Fastabbas by about 1.5 hours.. Viriditas (talk) 23:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * REDIRECT to Muntazer al-Zaidi which is an older and better article. (Done already). -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 15:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per FlyingToaster ILovePlankton (talk) 05:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per TimBowling (talk) 06:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * — TimBowling (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Merge with either George Bush or something similar. This obviously doesn't qualify for having a page of its own - Correctus (talk) 06:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. This is your classic WP:ONEEVENT kind of guy. Rklear (talk) 07:06, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge with George W. Bush. As Rklear says, this person is notable only for one event.  Per guidelines, that event should be covered, not the person.  Linguist At Large  07:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge + Redirect - George W. Bush. Per WP:ONEEVENT, "The bare fact that someone has been in the news does not in itself imply that they should be the subject of an encyclopedia entry."  Matt  (  Talk  )   07:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, do not merge or rename. This incident hardly even rises to the level of 'minor', let alone the basis for any sort of article--and certainly not a biography. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 08:33, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 08:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 08:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 08:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep: The fact that the guy was able to make the protest in spite of W's security detail makes the event notable. Also, the guy is a TV journalist in Iraq, he's not just joe public, so that makes the event more notable. Plus it was hella funny. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.64.72 (talk) 08:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to George W. Bush (without objection to delete) per WP:ONEEVENT if this protest rates a mention at all. This is a minor incident and certainly not the basis of a stand-alone biography. • Gene93k (talk) 08:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would object to deletion as that would lose the history which is needed for proper attribution. - Mgm|(talk) 10:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If there is anything worth merging (I have my doubts), preserve the history. Deleting this news story outright without merging is no great loss. Hecklers throw things (eggs, pies, etc.) at politicians all the time. Such incidents are generally forgotten once the news cycle fades. • Gene93k (talk) 11:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. This story could easily exploded on Monday. Besides, it was a huge full-circle moment for Bush. Saddam's statue was flogged with shoes when it was toppled and now Bush was on the receiving end of a leather sole and the harsh words of a pissed journalist. Furthermore, the whole incident could be considered a defining moment of the President's final trip to Iraq. Starks (talk) 12:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "Hecklers throw things...at politicians all the time". This was the US President we are talking about, on a trip probably partly designed to show success in a major issue: the SECURITY of Iraq. I think it's obvious to anybody that that aspect is important. "Such incidents are generally forgotten once the news cycle fades". I'd be willing to wager a substantial amount that this incident will almost certainly appear in every single biographical documentary of Bush and most major general documentaries about the Iraq war. It has major symoblism, and it's memorable and dramatic.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenji (talk • contribs) 14:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Keep it. He is one of the very few Journalists who have the courage to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.178.224.164 (talk) 11:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per Starks (talk) 09:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.92.17.193 (talk) 13:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * User has provided no reason behind rationale. MuZemike  ( talk ) 20:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Al-Zaidi's TV station is calling for his release. The way in which he should be treated by the authorities in Iraq is already a matter of controversy there. Thousands of al-Sadr supporters have demonstrated for his release. We may have to be patient for editors with the right language skills to add relevant material from Arabic-language sources on this. At that point, it is clear there will be too much material to reasonably fit in the article on George W. Bush. Therefore the choice will be between an article on al-Zaidi, or an article on the event itself, which clearly meets notability criteria, if there are objections to an article on him. It is inappropriate to ask that the al-Zaidi article be merged into the Bush one when it has the potential to grow, but may simply not have had time yet. Let me add that a number of people are misinterpreting the intent of the "one event" guideline. It does not support a merger in any way. It is intended to prevent the creation of biographies of people associated with a single, notable event, when there are numerous people associated with that event (such as all candidates, including minor ones, in an election). In this case, al-Zaidi is more or less synonymous with the event, in which he was one of the two main protagonists. The "one event" rule is not an excuse to avoid evaluating the notability of the event itself. By any reasonable measure, this event was notable. Otherwise, newspapers wouldn't have thought it important to report it, practically unanimously. (See the general notability guideline WP:GNG.) That leaves the choice of creating an article for the event or one for al-Zaidi. 67.150.245.46 (talk) 13:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * — 67.150.245.46 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I am giving a argument. Even if I can't vote, hopefully this will be persuasive to other editors. 67.150.254.154 (talk) 01:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * NOTE: I have redirected the article to Muntazer al-Zaidi, which was created a few hours before Muntadar al-Zaidi and has a few more sources. I retained the AfD notice on the page, but for some reason it does not show up on the AfD list. If I have broken the AfD notice with the redirect, please fix it -- I'm not sure how to get both the redirect and an AfD notice to show up. If you are still interested in having this debate about notability, please tag Muntazer al-Zaidi for AfD. -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 15:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - At the risk of getting mired in 'other stuff exists' debates - how notable was this fellow as a journalist, before his brief appearance on the world stage? If his lack of an article previously was due to the difficulty of sourcing material from Iraq, rather than his overall insignificance, I'd suggest keeping the article. If, on the other hand, he's just some random guy who happens to work for a news agency, I'd propose merging to a general article on Bush's visit to Iraq. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to George W. Bush - Hella funny and hella relevant...to W.'s presidency...doesn't warrant his own article. --Adaś (talk) 19:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per FlyingToaster --Nikolaj Winther (talk) 19:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep or Rename to something sensible. The event itself is noteworthy. There are more details about it, particularly relating to the aftermath and public response, than belong in George W. Bush. This is a relatively minor event in Bush's history, but a significant enough event that it should be covered somewhere. – &#160;Þ&#160;  19:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. According to The New York Times, this guy has become a big folk hero in the Arab World and beyond. The article also describes him as "a huge celebrity." Also see:, , . Khoikhoi 19:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep- This person doesn't fail WP:BLP1E. Sources are provided for his 2007 kidnapping incident.--Jmundo (talk) 19:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep The article is needed in WP cause no entery should be blocked or sensored in here. Bbadree (talk) 20:00, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Triple KEEP - He has a real historic value in the American invasion and occupation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scrobblix (talk • contribs) 20:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * — Scrobblix (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep - subject is notable in the Arabic world as a journalist, and is made further notable by his shoe-throwing action which has brought him to prominence as a symbol of Iraqi, Arabic, & Muslim anger about the U.S. policies in Iraq. -- Yksin (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - OneGuy (talk) 20:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * User has provided no reason behind rationale. MuZemike  ( talk ) 20:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Ok now I'm confused, it seems that this article is now a redirect with the AfD still open even though the Guide to deletion specifically advises against this, so.. which article are we now talking about? Muntader al-Zaidi, Muntazer al-Zaidi or Muntadhar al Zaidi? Nanonic (talk) 20:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure at all, but George W. Bush shoe throwing incident is now a triple redirect. Rklear (talk) 20:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm almost sorry i suggested it now...Umbralcorax (talk) 22:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep The depth of symbolism of Muntadar al-Zaidi's action has turned him into a folk-hero on the order of Rosa Parks or the Tank Man for millions of people around the world. For good or ill, his action marks a significant symbolic turning point in the history of the United States' war and occupation in Iraq.--Robert B. Livingston (talk) 20:42, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's much too early to suggest that this fellow is in any way comparable to Rosa Parks. Hyperbole will not help to clarify this discussion. I'm leaning towards voting 'keep' myself, but this man is not an instant folk hero; he's a journalist with more than one event of wider significance in his life to date. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but Robert B. Livingston is in good company. Rosa Parks was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the story break. Of course, the symbolic expression of what we in the states refer to as a Rosa Parks-type figure is going to transform itself based on the culture that expresses it.  I couldn't help notice how many news outlets tried to smear this guy hours after the story broke.  Gotta love those "anonymous unnamed sources" who say he "detested Americans".  Any particular reason nobody can go on record to say that?  For more fun and games, head on over to the article talk page, where you will discover that the NYT rewrote their story when Zaidi was portrayed in too positive a light.  Viriditas (talk) 07:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep: Wikipedia informs, that is the simplest reason to keep the article that explains a fact thats has been world wide covered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.244.103.112 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * — 204.244.103.112 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Yes KEEP keep the content and pursue good wikisense in merging multiple pages about a person. Katewill (talk) 20:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * STRONG Keep: reason: New York Times "Shoe-Hurling Iraqi Becomes a Folk Hero", ergo notable. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/world/middleeast/16shoe.html?em Rcnet (talk) 20:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and not because I think it's funny, have an extreme hatred towards W or anyone with an R after their name, denounce any form of imperialist dogma, etc. The verifiability of the 2007 kidnapping, as well as the attempted Bushwhacking via shoe, puts the BLP1E argument away for me. MuZemike  ( talk ) 21:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Abdallah (talk) 21:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * User has provided no reason behind rationale. MuZemike  ( talk ) 01:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment: Full disclosure: I created the article. Tht said, this incident has more reliable sources and news coverage than most articles on Wikipedia. The subject is notable beyond the context of the incident. Even though his name isn't well-known throughout the Western world (though this may change in a little while; after all, his name was released a very short time ago), in the Arab world, he's now a household name. Al-Zaidi and his actions have international significance even beyond the huge amount of coverage he's received in the English language. I know I shouldn't use WP:WAX, but this guy is at least as important and his influence as enduring as the dozens of internet memes on Wikipedia.  Graymornings (talk) 21:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For the record, you created a duplicate article, almost 2.5 hours after two previous editors beat you to the story, with Fastabbas creating it first, followed by Brhaspati. Viriditas (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * True, didn't realize, sorry for that. Thought I'd note it since I contributed much of the info in the article.  Graymornings (talk) 01:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are a primary contributor to the article, and I encourage you to keep at it. It was not my intention to take you down a notch, but rather to point out that multiple articles were created within a very short period of time. The three of you have close company with several other editors who also created duplicates, including User: AndriLimma. Viriditas (talk) 07:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, didn't take offense; just thought I should comment rather than vote because of it. Thanks!  Graymornings (talk) 07:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Al-Zaidi is now a hero throughout the Arab world "and beyond", as acknowledged in the Western press. (See New York Times "Shoe-Hurling Iraqi Becomes a Folk Hero" link a few lines above by Rcnet.) The Tank Man analogy is sufficient precedent for this article IMHO. It is hard to find any objective evidence for whether or not the Tank Man images influenced the mass sociopolitical behaviour either of Beijing residents, PRC soldiers, or the wider world, (except maybe through interviews of people saying it influenced them?), but it's clear that the event and images have become famous. Since we know the "Shoe Throwing Man"'s identity, we use his name instead of "Shoe Throwing Man". The case of Rosa Parks, is probably not so close IMHO, since it is clear with hindsight that the symbolic significance of her act, along with her longtime political activism, had a big influence on subsequent events, breaking a taboo. In this case, we cannot predict whether or not Al-Zaidi's action will significantly influence future sociopolitical events or not in the long term. IMHO it's unlikely that reporters will frequently get the chance to/decide to throw shoes at Obama or al-Maliki. (Hmmm, will reporters have to attend press conferences shoeless in the Arab world from now on?) However, mass demonstrations of support have already occurred in Iraq, within barely 24 hours of the event, and the massive international press reaction is certainly comparable to that of the Tank Man - one harmless human being daring to challenge a huge military machine just a metre in front of him. ("harmless" because even Bush getting a broken nose or a black eye would have done nothing to physically harm the US military-industrial-congressional complex.) Boud (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - why this article should be deleted, does this man exist? did webpages write about him?. -- User:glasszone33 —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC).
 * Keep.--Damac (talk) 22:06, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * User has provided no reason behind rationale. MuZemike  ( talk ) 01:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Merge to George W. Bush; coatrack (neutral, but still a coatrack) for the shoe throwing, ONEEVENT etc Sceptre (talk) 22:10, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep, mentioned by countless news organization. He is also a journalist by trade. --Voidvector (talk) 22:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. His career as a TV journalist in Iraq is not a singular event as it includes getting kidnapped in 2007 and throwing shoes at the U.S. President in 2008 and presumably much more like actual journalism. Sharksaredangerous (talk) 22:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I do not think those who have invoked "one event" have responded to the fact that al-Zaidi's article incorporates notable biographical information beyond the shoe-throwing incident. Furthermore, as argued by 67.150.245.46, even if we ignore these other incidents, this intepretation of "one event" is flawed. A Biography of an individual known for only one incident can be notable, if there is interest in the individual themselves. I think this is clearly the case, as there are now multiple article about al-Zaidi himself, rather than just the shoe throwing incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlesfahringer (talk • contribs) 22:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to George W. Bush. This incident deserves mention, but I don't see anything that makes Mr al Zaidi notable enough for his own article. Yes, he's a journalist. Yes, he's been kidnaped. If we had an article for every journalist and every person who's been kidnaped, Wikipedia would be huge! He can be mentioned by every newspaper in the world (and probably has), but if it's for the same thing, then it's still WP:BLP1E. He's not much more notable than the "I like turtles" boy. (Yes, I know I !voted to keep that article.) If Mr al Zaidi throws his shoes at someone else famous, then by all means recreate the article. Xenon54 (Frohe Feiertage!) 23:02, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Yes it is notability based on one event, but it is high-profile enough to keep.  There are many examples where a single event has developed greater significance: James Earl Ray, Matthew Shepard, Joe the Plumber...  There are thousands of people protesting in Iraq about this subject.  It is seen as highly symbolic.  MakeBelieveMonster (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC).
 * Keep - it started as one event but there have now been rallies and such, and we've not seen the end of this story. Evercat (talk) 23:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - notable person, notable event, significant contributions already. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs 23:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia. Increasingly, Wikipedia plays a brand new role in the information sphere: that of compiling coverage of breaking news stories with encyclopaedic depth. The coverage of the Mumbai bombings is an example. This is another. After reading the news stories, I came here directly because I wanted deeper coverage that I could possibly expect in news stories. And the content that I was hoping for was here. Don't prevent genuine innovation by applying a rule that was meant to address other issues. Edrowland (talk) 23:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep This gent has turned into a folk hero in his country -- albeit overnight. Let the entry stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.96.248.13 (talk) 00:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Per above.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 00:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep John Wilkes Booth did just one thing in U.S. history.  Would we consider deleting him?  No. Anwserman (talk) 00:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, does anyone remember him for anything besides being perhaps the most prominent and glamorous actor of his day? ;) - BanyanTree 02:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - I see no reason for it to be considered for speedy deletion, the article is about a news reporter who was involved in two news-worthy incidents, a separate article can be created to emphasise the shoe-throwing event itself, but this one should stay to expand on the person himself. Basem (talk) 2:44, 16 December 2008 (GMT+2)


 * Keep - I've searched his name and found it here in wikipedia. He is notable and there is need for the information. --Cheol (talk) 01:11, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep - Given the info about his kidnapping, I wouldn't be so quick to apply WP:ONEEVENT. I would like to see some more information on his background though.  I would be much more gung-ho about keeping this article if it had better biographical information. --Eastlaw (talk) 01:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep and Rename to something along the lines of 2008 shoe throwing incident. No Wikipedias in any language (including Arabic) had an article on the journalist prior to the incident, despite the kidnapping and all. But this incident is having such a massive impact- especially in the Arabic-speaking world (where apparently shoe throwing is much bigger deal than in the United States)- that it merits its own article on Wikipedia. ~ Eliz 81 (C)  02:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep but rewrite to avoid recentism. Reliable sources have noted that he has been an activist for a long time and has been kidnapped/imprisoned at least twice before. I agree the Tank Man is a useful analogy. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 02:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep he is sufficiently notable for multiple events.--Michael WhiteT&middot;C 02:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep or Rename. Nobody can deny the notability of the incident and the fact that this man has become somewhat of an overnight folk-hero.  The rule of thumb is "Cover the event, not the person", though in this case the person has slightly more notability because of a previous incident (kidnapping).  That being said, there is always room for a rename a la George W. Bush pretzel incident -> George W. Bush shoe-throwing incident.  Jury's out for me. Joshdboz (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak keep based purely on him being an established journalist from an established news organization. Everything else is just topping, though his treatment becoming a test case of the justice system, as initial reactions seem to be indicating, would probably push this to a straightforward keep for me. - BanyanTree 02:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep or rename as this whole incident has become an internet meme. As long as Rick-roll exists, so should Muntadar al-Zaidi cojoco (talk) 03:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC) (edit) Don't rename this article, as the man is as much a part of the story as his shoes, whereas pretzels are not in themselves newsworthy cojoco (talk) 03:55, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. This guy's an instant hero in the Arab world.  This will grow before it goes away.  Cmichael (talk) 03:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

oh!than what would you like to say about the article of "robin hood".......bush is kissing my ass not "good bye" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.2.56 (talk) 12:50, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and Rename per Joshdboz and Eliz81. Californian Treehugger (talk) 03:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Notability is not temporary, and for me, notability is established. &mdash; neuro(talk) 03:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. al-Zaidi was also kidnapped in 2007 and has been arrested by US Armed Forces numerous times. There is more to this man then this shoe incident.Mbslrm (talk) 03:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep the article is notable, verifiable and has reliable sources. And per the articles found by MakeBelieveMonster, to avoid WP:BIAS.-- Lenticel ( talk ) 04:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Well known journalist and fast becoming well known event...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crunchyoverseas (talk • contribs) 04:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Well known journalist and fast becoming well known event+how many people almost peg a sitting president in the kisser with a shoe?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.211.241 (talk) 06:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep The guy is linked to notable enough events to be documented. Imad marie (talk) 06:40, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per MakeBelieveMonster's comparison with Joe the Plumber. A similar case might be Brooks Brown whose subsequent career as a public speaker raises him past WP:BLP1E; another example is Samantha Smith. I suspect that if al-Zaidi's name were easier for English-speaking people to remember & spell we wouldn't even be discussing this. Ewulp (talk) 06:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and close per WP:SNOW. Badagnani (talk) 07:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Snowball keep (but please come to a consensus on how to spell his name). 24 hours ago I would have said merge or rename but world events have moved quickly. Reliable information about his career and previous kidnapping has been published. Does not fail BLP1E. McWomble (talk) 09:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - OK, I'm convinced. Not because this guy is suddenly the Iraqi Robin Hood, but because as a figure moderately in the public eye with at last three notable events to distinguish him, it's clear he's more than just being a WP:BLP1E subject. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep This journalist is notable for several reasons. 1) detained by gangs 2) journalism 3) TV appearances 4) George Bush shoe throwing 5) He is seen as a hero throwout the Islamic world. Also I believe that the nominator, nominated this article for deletion per WP:IDONTLIKEIT, which is wrong. Ijanderson (talk) 13:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.