Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murder of Ari Fuld


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The evidence of notability provided by the keep voters is convincing.  —&#8288;Scotty Wong &#8288;— 17:15, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

Murder of Ari Fuld

 * – ( View AfD View log )

WP:NOTNEWS, no lasting impact. Flurry of news articles when it happened, flurry at the funeral, flurry at conviction. Like pretty much every other attack or even most crimes in most first world countries.  nableezy  - 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC) 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  nableezy  - 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC) 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions.  nableezy  - 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC) 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions.  nableezy  - 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC) 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions.  nableezy  - 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC) 20:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Meet WP:DIVERSE and WP:INDEPTH(for example also mentioned in scholarly books   and articles  there is also a lot of Google Scholars links some behind paywall =--Shrike (talk) 20:19, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It helps if you put the scholar search term in quotes. You find 2730 sources turns in to 12. Among them several from yutorah.org and a newspaper report.  nableezy  - 21:24, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It still give enough references to establish notability as per our policies Shrike (talk) 14:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:N is very much not a policy. WP:NOTNEWS is.  nableezy  - 16:16, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes and its meets this policy per links that I showed earlier Shrike (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. This is a common murder for the occupied territory or anywhere else. Lightburst (talk) 20:38, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * @Lightburst I have brought several sources that establish is not routine and have some WP:LASTING effect as per our polices Shrike (talk) 21:03, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Mentioned in international press WP:INDEPTH too [, and also some [[WP:LASTING]] --Shrike (talk) 20:55, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Most stabbings between Israelis and Palestinians are briefly covered in the international press. Its still a couple of news cycles. And yes, it is "mentioned" in some sources. That isnt being covered in them.  nableezy  - 21:04, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Then per our polices those that meets DIVERSE should be kept. Is not was you claimed that it was established practice in the that such articles that covered in international press is notable? Shrike (talk) 21:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, Ive pretty consistently said that they dont belong. If it is just a news story it does not belong here. This is a news story. And no, that does not meet diverse, because the coverage must be "must be significant and not in passing". This does not have that.  nableezy  - 21:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well here you say something different I think  Shrike (talk) 21:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You should read that diff. Particularly where it says Per that established precedent. I am opposed to all of these articles. But so long as Israeli victims of what is fairly routine violence are covered then that standard should be applied equally. I have always been opposed to all these articles. But if you and other editors are able to maintain a standard that I feel is not actually in keeping with WP:NOTNEWS then I will ask it be applied equally. Oh, and you voted to delete there. (And that article actually had in depth sustained coverage, with the AP giving it in depth coverage some 8 months later)  nableezy  - 21:40, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Also in these case there are WP:LASTING effects that lead to legislation of Pay to Slay law --Shrike (talk) 21:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As the article notes, that legislation was already on the books. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 21:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Per WP:NOTNEWS. KidAd  •  SPEAK  01:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Meets WP:DIVERSE and WP:INDEPTH indeed. Google books links are also within the scope of said guidelines.BabbaQ (talk) 06:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete A Palestinian man became the 100th Palestinian citizen of Israel killed by gun violence this year so we need 100 articles for those people just this year? I don't think we do and we don't need this one either.Selfstudier (talk) 14:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If there is same coverage of WP:DIVERSE and mentioning in books then my answer is yes. Shrike (talk) 14:08, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS makes that rationale for deletion mute. Other peoples relevance has no bearing on the relevance of Ari Fuld, neither does 100 or 20 other Palestinians. BabbaQ (talk) 19:05, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It is a case of JUSTAMURDER which happens every day in almost all 195 countries. A relevant essay to apply WP:MILL. Or are some victims more important than others? Probably acknowledge that Selfstudier has a good point. Lightburst (talk) 21:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If other murders highlighted in international press mentioned in books and scholarly articles they should probably get an article Shrike (talk) 17:52, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll do one now for Khalil Jabarin, he must have been mentioned every time Ari Fuld was mentioned, right?Selfstudier (talk) 18:02, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The article about event not person if you have something add about the convicted murderer go ahead if you think that he deserve separate article then go ahead I will not WP:AFD these article. Shrike (talk) 18:07, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You got my drift then, it's not about an event, it's a memorial, Netanyahu's funeral tweet and Kemp adulation. So much not news, hard to find the news.Selfstudier (talk) 18:23, 22 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Sometimes Terrorist attacks even of a single individual deserve an article. For example, during times of turmoil such as the Second Intifada or the 2015–2016 wave of violence in Israeli–Palestinian conflict individual attacks may deserve their own article becuase they are part of something bigger (like a small battle during a big war). But Ari Fuld was murdered outside any framework. His murder isn't really different than most other terrorist attacks. A Jew is killed by a Palestinian, the IDF destroy the house of the attacker's family, the attacker (if alive) is put on trial and gets a life sentence, end of the story. It is a good story for the media but in Wikipedia there's not much to do with it. So per WP:MEMORIAL and WP:NOTNEWS there's no need for this article. The Murder of Eitam and Na'ama Henkin is extremely notable becuase it is from the Israeli perspective the beginning of two years of increased violence between Israel and the Palestinians.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 14:24, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the other murder is notable and worthy of staying, but not this one. Solely taking a quick look at the sources, and not making any personal judgments about the time frame, Ari Fuld's murder seems at least as notable. -- Bob drobbs (talk) 17:18, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I said exactly how I came to the conclusion that the murder of Eitam and Na'ama Henkin is notable. The fact that there was a lot of coverage is not enough to justify the article's creation. It is no more than a tragedy, and tragedies happen all the time. And just because the media likes to talk about tragedies, it doesn't mean that every tragedy that gets new coverege deserves its own article. I say this after long and difficult discussions about the deletions of articles concerning the tragedies of Palestinians killed by IDF soldiers, which didn't deserve an article, but pro-Palestinians made the same arguments, that every business that calls itself a newspaper has decided to talk about it and I don't think that becuase many media sources worldwide has some bias towards Palestinian narrative, we should let them dictate what is notable and what is not.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:26, 22 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Yes, there are murders all of the time. Most murder victims don't have the international press putting up articles like: "Who was Ari Fuld?" and "Israel mourns Ari Fuld."  This murder seems particularly notable and so it should stay.  As for WP:NOTNEWS, it doesn't seem to apply here, as this is not "routine news reporting of announcements, sports, or celebrities." -- Bob drobbs (talk) 17:15, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You seem to be ignoring the For example at the start of that sentence. You know, when one gives a not complete list of things that qualify. Not when one gives a complete list of things that are included. "Israel mourns" every victim Israeli-Jewish victim in the long running Israeli-Palestinian conflict, theres a whole section of the MFA website about them. This however is not an arm of the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs. This was as routine as any other murder. And the coverage in the news was indeed routine. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 17:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The source is not MFA site but WP:DIVERSE international press, books and articles this is more then enough to make the even notable --Shrike (talk) 17:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I dont understand what you are replying to, but it does not appear to resemble a reply to anything I wrote. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 17:55, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

<p class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Discussion is roughly split between "keep" and "delete". More input is required from other people to gauge which, if any, views have consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep It's about the killing of an activist, which is pretty notable on its own. Furthermore, it was well covered by the international press, it caused a bit of an international incident, and it lead to a case that went up to the Israeli Supreme court. OtterAM (talk) 22:07, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - it is a relatively recent event, so hard to judge lasting impact, but got plenty of international coverage when it happened and more coverage when the murderer was convicted, which is not routine. It is also mentioned in several books (e.g:, . There's also a a charitable organization bearing his name that is dedicated to his legacy - https://arifuld.org/our-mission/, which gets coverage. Inf-in MD (talk) 23:07, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. WP:NOTNEWS is being misapplied here; while a lot of murders are routine, most murders do not draw sustained international news coverage, and this story is not written like a news report. I would also caution against WP:IDONTLIKEIT: this is a contentious political subject, which I suspect is influencing some of the votes here. Gnomingstuff (talk) 23:34, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. WP:NCRIME notes that media coverage can confer notability on a high-profile criminal act, and there is evidence above that the media coverage is in-depth from a diversity of independent reliable sources. There are a few naked appeals to WP:NOTNEWS, saying that murders happen all the time. But, murders typically don't get broad international coverage; the coverage of this killing doesn't appear to indicate that it's a mere WP:DOGBITESMAN-level incident. Rather, it appears to be a crime that has international significance and coverage in line with point 2 (and possibly point 1) of WP:EVENTCRIT. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 06:50, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Event lacks evidence of a WP:SUSTAINED impact. MrsSnoozyTurtle 02:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * , what about this Jerusalem Post piece? This seems to be in line with WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. It also seems to have had at least some impact on US-Israeli relations in the state of Florida, and it appears to have caused a tax collection change in the Israel-Palestine area. The IDF also appears to have bulldozed some homes in response to the stabbing, which gained continuing coverage. This seems to be one of those stabbings that actually triggered a significant government response outside of the ordinary legal mechanisms for trying someone for murder. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 03:56, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * All of those things are routine in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 16:13, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * We don't have special policy for I/P conflict. This was major event covered by International press and that enough per our policies. Shrike (talk) 16:20, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No special policy required, not news, not at all.Selfstudier (talk) 16:28, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Its meets WP:NCRIME like was shown earlier Shrike (talk) 16:42, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * All NCRIME arguments are based on a guideline and are trumped by policy. Routine actions following murders do not make a murder notable. There were over 440 murders in New York City last year. Do you know how many have articles? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 17:01, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As per, I believe that WP:NOTNEWS is applicable here. MrsSnoozyTurtle 21:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.