Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murderball


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 04:47, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Murderball

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Contested PROD. The very simple solution here is to delete this page so that Murderball (film) can be moved to this title. A hatnote to Wheelchair rugby is probably not even necessary since it's linked in the first line of the film article. Compare to Racialism, which was a very clumsy dab linking to Racism and Racialism (racial categorization) until I PRODded it to move the latter there. In this case, the only other items refer to possibly WP:MADEUP games that aren't mentioned at their target articles, so they're poor dab listings anyway. It's essentially a WP:TWODABS situation.

I would also not object to redirecting this title to Wheelchair rugby with a hatnote to Murderball (film). --BDD (talk) 21:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. --BDD (talk) 21:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. --BDD (talk) 21:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * keep
 * I have no idea where murderball came from and whether it's also an able-bodied tag game. But what we do clearly have here are at least two notable topics: wheelchair rugby and a film about the same subject. Both of these are notable beyond any credible challenge. So we need to do some disambiguation.
 * Yes, we could rearrange the pages as described and do it all with hatnotes. For only two topics, that would possibly be "simpler" (and remember that those servers are running out of bytes). However Murderball, the name location for the primary topic, would now point to what is obviously the secondary topic, the derivative film. The primary topic, the game itself, vanishes entirely except for a non-obvious piped link. Remember that we have to name articles to not only work as stand-alone names, but also to make for easily embeddable links. This is why we usually favour Murderball (disambiguation) and leave Murderball cleanly for, what is in this case obviously, the primary.
 * If we also have two additional related topics (I don't know, I don't know any able-bodied murderball players), then hatnotes fall to pieces.
 * Obviously these articles could have been constructed with hatnotes. Possibly that might even have been usefully simpler. However where we are now is that we have a disambig. It's a useful disambig with as much claim as anything to be the best way to structure things. So why on earth create work to remove it? Andy Dingley (talk) 22:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Not that we would list murderball players on such a dab or hatnote anyway, any more than we would include famous footballers at Football (disambiguation) or in a hatnote (This article is about football. For famous football players, see Cristiano Ronaldo, Joe Montana...). --BDD (talk) 23:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: I really don't understand the purpose of this PROD or AfD. There are clearly two notables, and several other "maybe's". Removing this disambig serves no useful purpose, while at the same time making work both now and in the future if someone demonstrates NOTE on any of the other definitions. As one that played murderball in class in school, I suspect demonstrating NOTE will be trivial on that one anyway. Can we please stop putting effort into removing things and spend that on making new content instead? We're here to write an encyclopedia, not deconstruct one. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well said, especially that last part. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It took longer than I though, almost one whole minute: here. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That only indicates "murderball" is an alternative name for Dodgeball (I've never heard of that, but ok). --BDD (talk) 23:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * What we should understand here is that when a reader ends up on a dab page, that usually indicates a failure on our part. WP:TWODABS recognizes this. If we really think these children's games are important enough to mention on a dab despite not being mentioned in their target articles—i.e., if we want to throw MOS:DABMENTION right out the window—then we could at least move to Murderball (disambiguation) and name a primary topic. --BDD (talk) 23:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I get where you're coming from but what's the "primary" topic here? The colloquial name for the sport or the film about the sport that used its colloquial name? Tough call. In the absence of an obvious primary topic, a disambig (even with only two topics) isn't a huge issue, surely? Yeah, it might be theoretically contrary to the TWODABS guideline but... meh. If it helps, we played dodgeball at school (in Australia) and called it "murderball" until a bunch of guys showed up and played an exhibition game of wheelchair rugby and showed us what "real murderball" was. Crazy stuff. Sure, I don't have a source for that colloquialism either, but we're trying to help readers find what they're looking for. Stalwart 111  23:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I removed the two "maybes" due to lack of a source for either.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 23:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Added another entry to a character named Murderball in a film so this is no longer a TWODAB scenario.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 23:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep - and I added one based on this source and the Swedish variation, Killerball. With four variations and possible search targets I'm now quite convinced this should be kept. Wouldn't strongly object to it being moved to Murderball (disambiguation) to that Murderball can redirect to Wheelchair rugby. Stalwart 111  00:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Two entries with articles, one entry which meets Boleyn (talk) 13:50, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.