Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murdoch University Dubai (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ‑Scottywong | [converse] || 05:14, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Murdoch University Dubai
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

The article has seen no substantial improvement since the last deletion discussion, that had taken place in 2014. Aside from that, it seems to display no individual notability aside from being a regular campus extension of the flagship university in Australia, with little to no special merit unlike or alike depending on other campuses of this university, that have no standalone pages. This campus has a good enough explanation on the main Murdoch University page. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 09:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 09:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 09:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Arab Emirates-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep It's a University, it's in Dubai, it's notable here. It's listed by the | KHDA with 364 students and it's just | doubled its campus. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The first link is a routine government directory listing. The second link is broken. The clean URL is here. It reads like a press release from the construction company, and it's also borderline routine. • Gene93k (talk) 15:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The first link is the Dubai Knowledge and Human Development Authority - yes, a government body. That invalidates it, somehow? Sorry about the link, I hate source editing. So, it's a press release? So what? They're doubling the campus. What makes an educational institution notable if not its existence, its recognition by the government education authority and news media coverage of its expansion? It's notable. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For WP:GNG purposes, coverage needs to be in depth, reliable and independent of the subject. A government database entry lacks both depth and independence. Government accreditation alone is no longer enough to establish notability for a educational institution. It needs to satisfy GNG or WP:ORG, which has even more stringent source requirements. • Gene93k (talk) 16:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a regular campus of the university based in another country. The university that started the campus abroad, is based in Australia and it has the Dubai and other campuses mentioned in the main article itself. In comparison to this case, other universities have their campuses based here as-well like the University of Birmingham and University of Wollongong here with their Dubai campus, similar to the Murdoch Dubai campus they display no notability as well. I still don't understand how this article of a campus with nothing done out of the ordinary, but rather because it's known somewhere and it has more than 364 students is a reason as to why it's notable, the main article suffices the explanation of these campuses well enough. Help me understand Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 16:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but an educational institution doesn't have to have invented the computer to make it notable enough to include in Wikipedia, does it? It is a thing, it exists, it is of interest to people in the UAE education sector. OR to put it another way, why do you want to delete it? Why not include the other overseas campuses of Murdoch or other universities? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For the simple fact of this (must still fulfill the notability policy of receiving significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the university) line being breached in WP:NFACULTY for splitting articles under the College and university article guideline. Also for the fact that this campus in itself does not warrant a standalone article. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 16:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * No, you're trying too hard now. You're misquoting WP:NFACULTY for a start - the line is If an institution's faculties, constituent academic colleges, or academic departments are especially notable or significant they may have their own dedicated article - there is no mention in there of "receiving significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the university". The guidance (it's an essay, remember?) relates in any case to a single campus. Take a look at [|this here list] - all of which, by your criteria above, would be not notable as just 'overseas campuses'. AFAICS Murdoch Dubai is minor and perhaps even a bit neglected (I added some more info/citations, BTW), sure, but it's just fine as it is - as it was first time around at AfD. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:50, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Please, don't try and make this personal by saying I'm trying to hard, when the line I quoted is literally in there, in WP:NFACULTY under the sub-heading of General splitting of articles, wherein they mentioned campus as well. For the second link you mentioned, those campuses have a plethora of citations and references proving they are notable in comparison to this one with literally one citation at the time at that too from the university's own website', so i really don't understand how that proves your point of ( sure, but it's just fine as it is - as it was first time around). I also mentioned in my last comment that this campus in itself does not warrant a standalone article, which proves that I don't mind there being other campuses as long as they are notable and some reason or basis to be uploaded.
 * Happy to remove personalisation. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:01, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I forgot to mention this in the prior comment, you have made a very good attempt at adding in information and displaying notability which I truly appreciate as a fellow editor, my request is for you to go through the article once more and kindly consider WP:10YT when reviewing the information, education and organisations are dynamic spaces and the information that we see about an org today could easily be yesterday's news with the amount of reviewing done by external and internal entities in that industry. Good day to you Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 07:52, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   13:20, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete This should be inside a campuses section on Murdoch University. — Ad Meliora Talk∕Contribs 14:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It is now a well sourced article that easily demonstrates sufficient notability - and the other foreign campuses of Murdoch have WP articles, BTW. Also other universities with foreign campuses are commonly listed. So a 'keep' would seem sensible... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * What other Murdoch campuses have articles here? Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 16:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my rush - they're websites. The other overseas campuses are affiliates. Murdoch Dubai is the only overseas campus as such. And as such deserves its own (sourced, notable) article. PS. Didn't this AfD get closed already? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:25, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It was relisted for better consensus, as the conversation was only between us. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 16:32, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting comment made by a respected admin at WP:AN today - "This website, this community, has a rule that all schools are notable, all train stations are notable, we have articles about bagel shops and pro wrestlers and porn stars and pizzerias" Ahem. But not universities located in the Arab world... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * A link to this would be appreciated, a little intrigued. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 15:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm going to try and do this, but it's a little out of my comfort zone. It's here Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:31, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd sort of agree, you see. I'd be an 'inclusionist', I suppose. :) Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:35, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. Article has been massively improved and sourced since nomination (at which time it had only one citation). The current state of the article makes it clear that it passes WP:GNG and WP:NSCHOOL as an independent entity. PS: Please stop labelling posts with bolded "Comment". Just post as on any discussion page, and if you are replying to someone, nest your reply under their post using the correct number of colons (don't use bullets for replies). All these bolded non-!votes make it nearly impossible for the closing admin to find and assess the actual !votes. -- Softlavender (talk) 18:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Point taken, I cleaned things up and trust that Delta fiver, • Gene93k and Ad Meliora agree it's an improvement. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:00, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 04:36, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep There are adequate sources to pass the spirit of GNG. Keep this article about a university campus that is still growing. IMO, the AfD process is getting ridiculous. Wikipedia should be expanding, not contracting. I agree the encyclopedia should maintain a level of integrity, especially when dealing with people, and particularly in remaining neutral. You may not care about Murdoch University Dubai if you live in Irving, Texas but someone in Dubai might actually care about it 30 years from now when we are old and gray or long passed. Having an article here hurts no one but those who only want Wikipedia to be about what is important to them. --Tsistunagiska (talk) 14:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: The references to UAE, Al-Fanar Media and Enterpreneur look reliable, and discuss the topic directly and in detail. I think notability has been demonstrated. — Toughpigs (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge unless there is a a good deal more to say. At this point, almost none of these branches of US campus have articles; the one that does. is one where there are very many available references.  DGG ( talk ) 04:01, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.