Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/My Story (Minogue book)




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. After extended time for discussion, there is no consensus to delete (and indeed, not a single participant supporting outright deletion rather than an alternative), and a policy-compliant argument that the available sources are sufficient to support notability separate from that of the author. BD2412 T 02:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

My Story (Minogue book)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This doesn't appear to meet WP:NBOOK or WP:GNG. It could possibly be merged/redirected to Dannii Minogue as an WP:ATD. Boleyn (talk) 17:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge to Dannii Minogue. Just an autobiography of a celebrity. Not worthy of a separate article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:14, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: I added a review from the Evening Standard. I also have two examples of the book being referred to as a "bestselling autobiography": The Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph. I'm not sure where to access UK best-seller lists to verify this, but it indicates notability. Toughpigs (talk) 17:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also briefly reviewed in The Guardian, and covered by John Harris in the same publication. Sales also mentioned by The Bookseller. Οἶδα (talk) 18:01, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don’t see how citing book reviews that (in two out of three cases) report the book to be non-notable is evidence of notability. (An honest question about WP norms, not a snarky attack. If multiple RS review a book and say in effect “this is not an important book” does the fact that they covered it at all make it notable?) Llajwa (talk) 15:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Llajwa: The quality of the book isn't relevant to the notability; a bad book can be just as notable as a good one. If the book was a best-seller, then it's likely to be notable. Critics saying it's not important do contribute to notability. Toughpigs (talk) 16:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Toughpigs: Granted that a bad book can be notable, but does RS coverage which says only that the book is bad, in the absence of other evidence, establish notability? If newspapers print brief reviews of a celebrity's book saying "don't waste your time on this pointless book" - and there's no other coverage and sales are poor - would those reviews by themselves constitute notability?
 * It seems analogous to children of celebrities - profiles of the parent will likely mention the children by name, but that in itself does not make those children notable. Llajwa (talk) 18:20, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As I said above, two of the reviews mention that the book was a "bestselling autobiography." Toughpigs (talk) 18:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting to review soures brought to the discussion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:54, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment. There's also one from the Daily Mail that I'll add later. --Ouro (blah blah) 12:35, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment to comment. The DM piece was uninteresting, but I frankly do not have it in me at the moment to look for something else than the West Australian piece. --Ouro (blah blah) 10:42, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment. All right, added one more short from the SMH, I guess this makes the book passable although it's scrapin' the bottm of the barrel. --Ouro (blah blah) 15:29, 23 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge to Dannii Minogue, per Necrothesp above. Llajwa (talk) 15:38, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Notability (books) says: "A book is presumed notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, at least one of the following criteria:The book has been the subject of two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries, bestseller lists, and reviews. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book." Sources   The review notes: "While we're here, consider also the enticing kick-off passage of My Story, by Dannii Minogue ... This does not quite get me hooked, though I persevere. But more of that later. ... I begin with Minogue's My Story, because she is the one contemporary celeb author I have met: at a west London branch of TGI Fridays circa 1997, when we fell into a weird and bitter argument about whether Robbie Williams should be blamed for losing himself in drink and drugs after exiting Take That. I sympathised with him; she, like a true show-must-go-on veteran of an Australian institution called Young Talent Time, did not – and it all got rather heated and shouty. Which is more than can be said for My Story, in which most of her anecdotes fall flat, like the kind of pub stories that are followed by pregnant silences."  The review notes: "Considered a snip for an advance of just £300,000, this one proves to be a snore. Minogue thanks “book writing partner” Terry Ronald, her gay friend and music producer, which makes the passages starring him, presumably also written by him, read oddly. ... Otherwise, it’s bland and uninformative."</li> <li> The review notes: "That's what I'd say if she didn't come off so bloody likeable and this book wasn't so frightfully fascinating (in a fluffy, fly-on-the wall way, of course). Call me a tragic pop culture vulture but My Story is 300-odd pages of mindless celebrity deliciousness."</li> <li> The review notes: "Minogue, in her co-written, predictably perky My Story (Simon & Schuster, £18.99), comically depicts virtuous puzzlement as her sole response to other celebs' misbehaviour, as when rival X Factor judge Sharon Osbourne berates her; luckily, though, she somehow remembers Osbourne's stream of insults perfectly. Image is all for Katie and Dannii, yet both books strangely have gobsmackingly dreadful photos."</li> <li> The article notes: "While the tome will probably never make into the annals of the great literary contributions of our time, Minogue plans to leave her mark, especially within the genteel Sydney society circles McMahon moved in. Indeed Minogue has been spruiking the book in Britain this week and paying a lot of attention to the significant portion devoted to her marriage and divorce from Julian McMahon."</li> <li> The review notes: "This book is juicy and for one main reason: It details, for the first time, Minogue"s marriage to Julian McMahon and her lack of relationship with his mother, Lady Sonia McMahon. ... A surprisingly enjoyable read. "</li> <li> The review notes: "In her new autobiography My Story, Minogue incorrectly spells the name of Australia's most famous street and the place that made her sister Kylie a household name. ... Released in Australia on November 2, My Story is a candid revelation of Minogue's rise from Johnny Young Talent Time to a judge on Britain's X Factor, watched by more than 16 million people."</li> <li> The article notes: "In her candid autobiography My Story she reveals the drama behind announcing her pregnancy last year. ... The chapter about how Lady Sonia McMahon treated her while married to her son Julian is titled 'A Lady in name only'. ... The book also delves into Minogue watching her sister survive cancer while losing her best friend to the disease."</li> <li> The review notes: "From shocking Lady Sonia McMahon mother-in-law tales to a tug-at-the-heart-strings story of losing her best friend to cancer, there's more to Dannii Minogue than most people give her credit for. From this raw and deeply personal work, it's clear that she's done the hard yards. I was always a Kylie fan. I still am. But boy, am I a Dannii fan now, too."</li> <li> The article notes: "A beaming Dannii Minogue was ready to tell and sell her bestseller My Story yesterday. ... Minogue's autobiography has been a huge hit in Britain, where she has been praised for not glossing over difficult points in her life."</li> <li> The review notes: "I picked up My Story by Dannii Minogue yesterday and I was stunned - I didn't know she knew anything about my story. In it she charts her brave fight to emerge from sister Kylie's shadow, her rise to popularity as an X Factor judge, and her status as one of the most desirable women in pop."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow My Story to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 11:42, 28 January 2024 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Keep per WP:SIGCOV. Just because it's trash doesn't mean it's not notable. In fact, as noted above, ghost-written celebrity autobiographies tend to be best-sellers with lots of reviews in reliable sources. Bearian (talk) 15:15, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.