Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school and conference


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school. Salvio giuliano 08:28, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school and conference

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Has been tagged for a merge since September, but after some discussion over at WP:CBBALL, it seems like it belongs here instead.

WP:CRUFTy list that is largely redundant to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school. The addition of conference affiliation to that list would make an already busy list cluttered. The information that is presented here is also misleading at best, and inaccurate at worst, due to shifting conference affiliations over the years, and the listing of teams by their current conference. fuzzy510 (talk) 03:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. fuzzy510 (talk) 03:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Leave the schools receiving bids by conference, up.
 * It is a far more detailed page than the list of schools on the other page and breaks down what conference they're in, how far they advanced and how long it's been since they have made each round. It also lists the upcoming changes to each conference. Fresno St. Alum (talk) 01:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I know this is an ILIKEIT argument, but as I reader, I always visit this page instead of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school because this page is a more pleasant reading/browsing experience. You're right that conference affiliations change, so the article is misleading to readers who don't already follow college basketball. But if it's deleted, I'd like to see NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school overhauled to make it less cluttered. 15 columns is too much. Zagal e jo (talk) 18:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect/Merge There is zero point to having both of these articles, but I would take a look at overhauling whatever remains after this AFD, as I could easily see how readers would prefer the formatting of the former. There's no real point in deleting over redirecting here, at least in my view – there are likely links out there from external sites, and the bids by school article provides largely the same info, so a redirect isn't going to mislead readers. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  18:44, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Questions How much of this content can be independently sourced? Or is it solely based off of the NCAA published record book.  I'm wary of WP:NPOV and pushing the NCAA's narrative.  Also, how much of the "last appearance" columns can be directly sourced, versus requiring editors to peruse a list to find the last time something happened.  If the latter, I think the scale of which it's being done goes beyond WP:CALC and seems WP:OR.—Bagumba (talk) 07:08, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * These questions would also apply to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school (and arguably, the situation is more complicated there). I think it should be possible to verify the information team-by-team, with patience. I'm sure the information also exists on individual team pages, although some spot-checking reveals a general lack of citations in those pages, as well. Personally, I wouldn't be so worried about people perusing a list to determine when something last happened. Using prose sources also requires some degree of interpretation and synthesis. Zagal e jo (talk) 16:15, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm wary of presenting reams of stats unexplained (WP:NOTSTATS), and in a format not really presented anywhere else (WP:UNDUE).—Bagumba (talk) 16:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * One option might be to just take NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament all-time team records and add the number of tournament appearances for each school, and redirect the others.—Bagumba (talk) 16:35, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think there's at least some interest in knowing how far a team has made it through the tournament, and the last time they hit a certain round. Articles like this show that people do want that information. Zagal e jo (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * People want betting odds too. I'll mull this over and await others' comments. —Bagumba (talk) 16:54, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think that all types of lists like this are exactly what Counting and sorting are not original research is supposed to be talking about. Ejgreen77 (talk) 18:22, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I support deleting the page. I originally made the merge request because the NCAA tournament pages suffer from an overload of repeated stats on various pages. This information can be added to the bids page as a new section as long as the information is correct and the original conference. The media rarely attributes appearances to a conference from before a team was part of it Ha2772a (talk) 16:52, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: This list is a redundancy of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school as mentioned by Fuzzy510. In addition, it inflates numbers of schools' current conferences by including all their appearances with disregard to appearances while members of different conferences (i.e. UConn's two appearances as a member of the AAC are included in the Big East's total and excluded from the AAC's). Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the only purpose for which a conference total for bids would be relevant is the shared pool of money conference members receive for fellow members' successes in the tournament in any given year. That does not seem to be a good enough purpose to keep the list, especially since it currently doesn't mention said purpose. Greenday61892 (talk) 18:19, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This list is not a redundancy. While sports-reference provides a tally of tournament appearances by conference membership *at that time*, this page lists appearances by current membership, giving a more accurate portrayal of current conferences' historical strength. While it would make sense to merge this page into the "bids by school" page, deleting it completely would be wasting a valuable resource. 131.100.2.215 (talk) 15:03, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school. Shouldn't break external sites that might already link here (page has existed since 2006).  Nothing to merge, as there's no convincing arguments to keep the potentially misleading conference content.  Cleanup can take place independently at the target page, if some layout features here were better.—Bagumba (talk) 07:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school and merge any relevant information there, as appropriate. Ejgreen77 (talk) 14:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school per above.  // Timothy :: talk  05:22, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.