Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NRL vs. AFL 2011 TV Ratings


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 02:33, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

NRL vs. AFL 2011 TV Ratings

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Pure speculation. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Shirt58 (talk) 13:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete/Merge Not an encyclopaedic topic, more suitable as an essay or on-going analysis. It seems unlikely that this will be demonstrably notable in its own right as a stand-alone topic and will continue to fail the WP:SYNTH and WP:IINFO guidelines. Fæ (talk) 13:53, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

In reply: It will be updated as figures come in from ratings sources and will be referenced thoroughly. This page will be used as a set of key figures in the lead up to the 2 TV deals being negotiated in the next 6-12months for Australia's two biggest sports. It is not disimilar to any listings of crowd figures or player indiscretions. I will personally keep it up to date and ensure it is of a high standard, it is just a lot of work in one go which is why I am currently preparing it for the upcoming seasons (starting in a few weeks) so that figues will just need to be added. Wiki allows me to collect all the data much like an exel sheet but also allows referencing to add credibility and weight to the discussion of a topic which dominates the media and discussions between fans of both codes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC) — Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I am nowhere near finished so please allow me time to put the effort in that is needed to get this page up to a high standard. You will see it will be a contributive source of information.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) 24 January 2011
 * Comment Though I hate to discourage a new contributor, and although I recognize that writers of sports articles are allowed to get away with things that other writers aren't-- things like 2010 Atlanta Braves season pretty well shows that WP:NOT isn't meant to be taken seriously-- I think that you're going to face the problem that comes with comparing X and Y. That type of article usually isn't kept, the reason being that you can compare anything to anything.  In this case, it's comparing the popularity on TV of rugby league to Australian rules football on days where matches are being broadcast at the same time, which is like comparing (in the U.S.), NBA basketball to NHL hockey, or for that matter, NBA basketball vs. NCAA basketball, or NFL football to NCAA anything.  To me, it's not much different than the pages where a Braves fan keeps track of the season as it's going on. You might want to keep track of things on your own user page, however. Mandsford 22:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

In Reply: But that is exactly the point... If 2 games are on at the same time then the fan much choose which game to watch, and there in lies the reason for this. It is a gauge of popularity, support and overall fan-base. I am using the same data as the TV networks and applying them to a stand alone wiki page so the average fan can see EASILY see the numbers in one place (cause god knows it's hard to find an overall season review rather than weekly or just a few sets of numbers on the news post-season, without sources).

I can see where you are coming from about the different variables but this is not black and white, it is grey. I am posting the figures and will be adding the different variables in the intro as I have started to do. For instance FTA tv is available to 98% of OZ where PTV is used by 34%. The ratio of games for each code is different on each format but both are shown on each, which is why I have a PTV average/game and FTA average/game. Another things is the AFL is shown Nationally at decent hours, where the NRL is only shown in 2 states (plus New Zealand) before midnight. But the NRL still win the ratings... So it isn't like I am skewing the numbers to favour 1 side or the other. The AFL tend to win the 5 capital city figures where the NRL double the AFL on PTV and when regionals are counted beat the AFL overall.

Like i said this is the same data the TV networks will use to make part of their decision and is the closest you can get to comparison but it is a set of key figures for anyone to access much like a crowds comparison (where by your argument there are restaurants to go to instead of games so it isn't comparable...? the people who went to the game made the choice and that is gauge of popularity of the sport/games). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Also I will refer to these 2 news articles showing comparisons and the overall yearly audience (not that they will use exactly my data but TV networks will want to know the TOTAL eyes on the box when the sport is being shown in the overall TV package they are buying).

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-obliterates-rival-codes-in-tv-war/story-e6frexnr-1225919884159

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/nrl-races-ahead-in-tv-viewers-stakes-20100930-15z9t.html

Both talk about comparisons of cumulative seasons audience and "head-to-head" figures. This is the data used in Australia to measure to success of a code in Australia.

Thank you for taking the time to see my points. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) 00:17, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

The arguments Aaronbach1 puts forward are quite genuine. The sporting landscape in Australia is quite remarkable in the fact that there are multiple versions of football competing for audience interest. This is why there is currently a thorough list of Australian Football Code Crowds being updated on Wikipedia. As NRL & AFL are the only two sports in Australia that have free to air coverage of their domestic competitions, it makes perfect sense that their viewing figures be recorded. This is no different to the Annual Australian TV ratings pages that are on wikipedia. However as the sources for this page would come directly from the National ratings monitor, all numbers posted on this page would be 100% accurate and official (Mattdocbrown (talk) 08:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC))
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

In Reply: you know little about Australian Sport if you were unaware that earlier last year the AFL commission went on to state that "AFL" will take over from the name of the traditional "Australian Rules Football" tag... Just so you know all my figures would be taken from the OZtam and Astra ratings. The same official and legitimate figures used by Australia's television networks.
 * Delete ratings information can be included in code/match specific pages. Reubot (talk) 07:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete as both Original research by synthesis and as a POV fork. There are recurring flame wars on Australian Rules and Rugby League forums about what sport is the most popular and this article is pretty clearly written by a participant in those wars. He gives the game away by calling the sport "AFL" instead of "Australian rules football" in the article, "AFL is the name of both the sport played and the main domestic competition" which is juicy flamebait. The creator of the article is also a contributor to List of Australian rules football incidents, an article that appears to have no purpose than baiting Australian rules football fans. The creating editor should be reminded that Wikipedia is not a battleground and be advised that they should focus on improving Rugby league articles rather than writing very WP:POINTy articles about other codes. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I suspect that is quite possibly news to the AFL commission but you are only throwing that line out as flamebait anyway, so it doesn't matter. I don't care enough about Australian Rules to take the bait. The fact that you are using someone else's rating figures does not stop this entire article being original research by synthesis. You are taking raw data published by others and using it in a way that creates a new piece of data (the comparison) that is original to yourself. That is not how this place works. I note that you haven't bothered to deny the overall point you are trying to push, however. Go and start a blog and push it there - Wikipedia is not a soapbox. For the record, nearly everyone else find football code flame wars dead boring. It would help the rest of us if you stuck to League Unlimited and/or Big Footy rather than bring them to Wikipedia. Alternatively, instead of trying to prove a futile point, why don't you go and improve some of the existing Rugby league articles. The best try I ever saw was in the first game of the 1994 State of Origin series by Mark $2 Coyne. Why not try and improve that article. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 07:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I'm not sure how involved you are with the AFL commission but I do refer you to the AFL's official webpage - http://www.afl.com.au/development/playafl/tabid/10244/default.aspx - which has now changed to read 'Play AFL' instead of 'Play Australian Rules Football' - as part of the AFL's attempt to sell it in developing markets both in Australia and overseas where the 'AFL' brand is more well known than Aussie Rules. Now whilst purists like yourself may object to it for obvious reasons, if the governing body claims it surely that should be taken into account rather than 1 wiki user's opinion. However I must say I don't really believe your claim not to care enough about AFL - considering you've created quite a few AFL club pages yourself - so I'll take whatever you say with a grain of salt. As for Synthesis, I note that there are already Australian ratings and sporting wiki pages - such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Australian_football_code_crowds - that have been running for more than 5 years that are also measuring comparative football audience sizes - and in fact have far fewer direct official resources than this article would. My only suggestion would be that this article encompass all four codes - however - if you really understand the nature of ratings data available, you will know that during summer that half the A-league games are cut off the pay-tv ratings list by cricket and that in winter AFL & NRL knock Super 15 off likewise so getting that complete info for Soccer & Union is near impossible. Only AFL & NRL rate highly enough for every game of the season to make the official ratings lists from Astra, Oztam and Regional Tam. If the information for both codes comes directly from the same ratings monitor, logically the only people who would label it 'synthesis' are those who dislike what the ratings monitor has recorded.(Mattdocbrown (talk) 10:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).

Mattingn you said "You are taking raw data published by others and using it in a way that creates a new piece of data (the comparison) that is original to yourself." If this is the reason for deletion I will be happy to abide by this but may you please tell me the difference between comparing TV ratings and Crowds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures This page takes RAW DATA PUBLISHED BY OTHERS, and MAKES A NEW PIECE OF DATA (THE COMPARISON) this is original to the editor. Comparing worldwide sports is a far less relevant comparison in my opinion (but it should also have it's place on wiki) as it doesn't account for ticket costs across sports, sporting culture, stadia capacity etc. My comparison is within Australia between the choices of the average Australian in the same sporting environment I differentiate between what is available to 98% of the population and what is available to 34% of the population. I have no issue if this page has truely breached Wiki's standards. What I do have a problem with is the reason given is overlooked on a variety of other long term pages... Thank you, I look forward to your response. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaronbach1 (talk • contribs) 12:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.