Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names and titles of Jesus in the Quran


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  08:05, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Names and titles of Jesus in the Quran

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Redundant content fork of Jesus in Islam. Pepper Beast   (talk)  12:09, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 12:28, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Improved a page a lot more and how is it a redunant fork since on the Jesus in Islam page there are two noteswhich I copied and thats it. I also added etymology and meanings with names of Surahs, this article should not be deleted User:SharqHabib 12:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. While it is a fork, it is a valid fork. I recommend adding a short summary paragraph to Jesus in Islam with a main link to Names and titles of Jesus in the Quran. The Jesus in Islam article is already too long to merge this material into it. Names and titles of Jesus in the Quran is also too detailed a treatment of a narrow subject to be dealt with at such length in the Jesus in Islam article. The real question is whether the topic is independently notable. It is hard to judge from the sources, which are mostly books. ~Anachronist (talk) 13:11, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Notability. "The real question is whether the topic is independently notable". These books which I have added are reliable as well as many reliable sites too so I don't think there's any question about notability, also I don't think so list type of article necessarily need reliable sources. ~SharqHabib (talk) 16:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - This topic is not independently notable, and is only made to appear so by the original research of which the article consists right now. As far as I know, al-Masīḥ ('The Anointed', The Messiah, from Greek Khristós = Christ) is the only thing coming close to an alternative name or title for Jesus in the Quran (like 'Christ' functions in English). ʿĪsā is just his name. The rūḥ or Holy Spirit in Islam is normally understood to be a separate entity by which Jesus is "strengthened" (I will refer to the English translations of the Quran verses cited in the article: 2.87). The ghulām zakīy or "pure boy" is merely used to describe Jesus (e.g., Mary is promised a "pure boy" in 19.19). Somewhat closer to a title (especially because it used in that way in most Christian traditions) but in the framework of the Quran still just a description is "Word" (kalima, from Greek logos): Jesus is announced several times as a Word coming from God (e.g., 3.45). If Jesus holds the title Āya ("Sign") at the basis of a verse like 19.21 ("[...] We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us [...]"), he should also hold the title Raḥma ("Mercy"), which does not appear to be the case (showing how this is partly arbitrary and depends on later interpretation). The fact that Jesus is passingly described as "held in honour in this world (Arabic: wajīhan fī l-dunyā) in 3.45 is the basis for the 'title' Wajīh ("Honourable"). Of course, in some Islamic traditions these Quranic descriptions of Jesus may have been adopted as titles, but it would need to be explicitly pointed out who did adopt them, and when and where. None of the secondary sources used at the moment is reliable, and actual reliable sources are very unlikely to treat this topic in a unified way. Any passing mentions of it that may be found would not exceed the bounds of Jesus in Islam, and are even not very likely to receive more than a few sentences there. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 01:00, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: I've taken another look at this, and it appears that I was wrong. I've checked Parrinder 1965, and he covers this material quite significantly (listing the names and titles, quoting the verses in which they occur, and then discussing them one by one, though unfortunately from a tertiary source perspective). Perhaps some of the other independent and reliable sources copied without acknowledgment by the now-blocked SharqHabib from Jesus in Islam and somewhat inexplicably removed by Pepperbeast also contain something relevant. The article needs much improvement, but the topic of Jesus' epithets in the Quran does seem to meet WP:GNG, if perhaps only barely. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 23:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - there is a lot of scholarly material on the titles/names of Jesus that are found in the Qur'an. This article can definitely be fleshed out by referring to journal articles by individuals like Gabriel Said Reynolds (Professor at Harvard), and other academics who study the relationship between Christianity and Islam. Maqdisi117 (talk) 04:14, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm curious, what scholarly material are you referring to? If you give me a specific article or paper I'm definitely willing to take a shot at improving the article myself. However, there must be sources is not a valid argument here: don't just claim that there must be sources out there somewhere. Instead, prove it, by providing them. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 04:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,   B E C K Y S A Y L E S   13:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Apaugasma's comments largely reflect my conclusions. I did quite a bit of work to at least clean-up the article, stripping out some of the Quran trivia and improving readability, but in doing so, I've come to the conclusion that it's largely nonsense (as well as affirmed its non-notability).  As far as I can make out, Isa bin Maryam is known to Muslims as Isa al-Masih and Isa al-Wajih. The other "titles" in the article are basically just descriptive phrases that are not used as titles. I think the article represents an effort by the author to create some kind of equivalent of the Names and titles of Muhammad, which really is a notable thing, or the 99 names of Allah (which is so much of a notable thing that my local shopping mall sells nicely framed posters of the 99 Names), or of Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament, which is a whole 'nother can of notability worms, IMO. I just don't see how this topic is notable.   Pepper Beast    (talk)  13:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as opposed to Merge; this material is too long to be kept in Jesus in Islam. User:力 (power~enwiki,  π,  ν ) 21:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.