Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nancy Salzman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. ‑Scottywong | [squeal] || 00:19, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Nancy Salzman

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As per WP:PERPETRATOR, this should be a redirect to NXIVM, but warrants discussion at this point.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * KEEP – As per WP:PERPETRATOR, specifically "#2 The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role", it can be argued that the cult known as NXIVM has reached significant national and international recognition due to the abundance of media and documentary coverage implicating Salzman as a central figure in the cult. Documented coverage of Salzman's involvement has recently been supported by the documentary series known as The Vow. Salzman created the hypnosis sessions and curricula within ESP (Enterprise Success Programs) that would be rebranded as NXIVM. Salzman was also the only individual with some form of medical license (RN), which introduces the discussion of medical malpractice within the hypnosis schemes that were the core of NXIVM's brainwashing techniques. While I understand Salzman had a minimal sentence for racketeering compared to Keith Raniere, she was just as guilty for creating the cult that endangered the lives of so many. Long story short, NXIVM would not exist without the unusual criminal mind of Salzman, meriting an article in her own right under point #2 in WP:PERPETRATOR under Wikipedia's Notability standards. — Scott218 (talk) 17:18, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * KEEP – This person was a major perpetrator in a notable and large scale criminal case. Articles on the main people involved are crucial for understanding the case and help understand additional contextual background. Without such information, the articles on the related subjects (e.g. NXIVM, Keith Raniere) are less complete. The article is well supported by independent external sources. --Matcobik (talk) 16:51, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  18:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * DELETE - This article is factually incorrect on almost every single count, including Ms Salzman's birth place, medical degree and involvement in NXIVM. NXIVM was not a multi level marketing company, nor was it a cult.  Nancy Salzman has been directly involved in the case against NXIVM, but the stated facts about her involvement are incorrect.  Wikipedia is supposed to be a place that supports factual information.  Branding Ms Salzman as a "criminal" bears no significance to this page.  Al Capone is one of the most notorious criminals of all time, as is Charles Bronson.  Neither of their pages call them a "Criminal".  This page is deliberately designed to defame Ms Salzman and Wikipedia should be ashamed of allowing these practices to continue unchecked. Craftercreeper (talk) 14:09, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * In response to the accusations outlined above: All of the points made in the article are factual and have been properly sourced. Please check the sources before making these claims. She was convicted of a crime (I suggest you read this press release distributed by the Department of Justice here: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/founder-nxivm-purported-self-help-organization-and-five-others-charged-superseding). — Scott218 (talk) 20:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep – Per WP:GNG and WP:PERP. Sources are ok as well.BabbaQ (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete – WP:PERP states: "A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person" (emphasis added). In this case, such an article exists: NXIVM. WP:PERP further states: "Where there are no appropriate existing articles, the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article..." (emphasis added). Because an appropriate article already exists (NXIVM), and Salzman is not otherwise notable, this article should be deleted. Edge3 (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - This is important information for the public. This woman founded a criminal enterprise that was a risk to the public.  Most media focuses only on the male founder, and it is important that there be equal information about this female founder as well.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.132.191 (talk) 23:23, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

1 Corinthians 13:1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.60.84.6 (talk) 20:16, 26 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.