Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Naomi Phoenix


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Borderline on WP:MUSIC, but good third-party sources tip it over the edge. Black Kite 11:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Naomi Phoenix

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Naomi Bolster/Freeth/Phoenix - singer whose claim to fame (single of the week in Melody Maker) seems to be only supported by archived promotional pages. Possibly notable with better sourcing. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:10, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   --  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined  /  C ) 14:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak keep and expand. References in Melody Maker and the Birmingham newspaper cited push this into the "non-trival third-party references" category of notability. I'm saying weak, though, because as noted most of the sources are of the promotional variety, and Birmingham source is poor as it's behind a subscription wall (better to cite issue-and-page for the print version in that case). Has potential for expansion with additional sourcing. No prejudice towards this being renominated in 6 months if it hasn't been improved. 23skidoo (talk) 21:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

It has been difficult to source online material as it is hard to find it online from the late 1990s. Naomi has in fact been in Melody Maker several times (18 Oct 1997, 06 Dec 1997 (Full Page article), 29 Nov 1997 (featured twice in edition including Single of the Week)). Only the Single of the Week has been mentioned in wiki article as considered notable. Gut Records who are a major independent record label in the UK (who Naomi was signed to) refers to the Single of the Week accolade on it's website (which I have linked to). As Gut Records are a large respectable label, I wouldn't refer to that link and references as just promotional material as it carries considerable weight. The only other possible thing I can do is upload a copy of the article if I get a copy? Is this possible to be done considering copyright issues? There is no Melody Maker website anymore since merging into NME. She has also been featured in other national magazine titles (Music Week - 22 Nov 97, Sky Magazine - Dec 1997, Marie Clare - Dec 1997, Smash Hits - Jan 1998, TV Hits - Feb 1998 & The Big Issue - July 1998. I have not mentioned these in the main wiki article as I did not think they were relevant like the Melody Maker single of the week article. I have given a link on the wiki article to Naomi's official website (archived) that lists all the publications that she has appeared in. She has also been on a BBC2 Music File show (see http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.search&q=naomi+music+file ) and also the Channel 5 Melinda Messenger show (see http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=4488204 ). I did not put these on the wiki article as I did not think they were too relevant although they are notable. The link to the Birmingham Mail article was to prove that she went to the same school as chart topping folk duo Nizlopi and nothing more (that fact linking Naomi to Nizlopi is more notable than it being a regional paper) I appreciate the comment that it is a subscription web-page but again, I struggled to find free web articles to show that point. The relevant text on this article can actually be seen on the Google search text here ( http://news.google.com/archivesearch?client=safari&rls=en&q=naomi+trinity+school+leamington&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&tab=wn ). There are actually 3 newspaper articles that are displayed giving the relevant fact. I appreciate it is not the best way to do it but it proves the point. I don't think a Google search would be adequate for a wiki article but I hope it gives those reading this response that the article is credible, it just needs improving. I would appreciate guidance as to how to improve this wiki article to prevent deletion in light of the problems I have come across in referencing this article from the internet alone. DisasterJunkie (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Multiple albums on significant independent label pass WP:BAND. Also there's nothing at all wrong with the Birmingham Evening Mail reference. There's absolutely no requirement that sources should be available online, and the issue date is quoted for verifiability. The other print publications can also be used as sources. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment My initial Google search made it look a bit questionable, but if the Melody Maker and newspaper print references get added to the article, that satisfies the concerns I had about it. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Melody Maker article in question does have the issue date on the wiki article. I could improve the article further by supplying the page number for an additional reference to the Gut Records and S&M Management web references already provided. I will look for this. I have additionally added links on the wiki article to NME articles which are available online, links to the BBC2 and Channel 5 show which both feature Naomi. I have also added to the article reference showing who else was on the Gut Records roster at the time Naomi was there (there were only 7 artists then and in addition to Naomi, it included Tom Jones, Jimmy Somerville and Space). A Gut Records link is provided to show this. Is this sufficient now to keep the wiki article pending further improvements? DisasterJunkie (talk) 08:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.