Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Narayana Ninna Namada


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 10:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Narayana Ninna Namada

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

No evidence that this rises to notability for an independent article per WP:NSONGS. Hekerui (talk) 19:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  —Shreevatsa (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Although this is probably hard to argue based on sources (I was actually expecting the article to be PRODded, not taken to AfD), this is a notable song. It is (I think) part of the Carnatic music canon of popular compositions. Most of these compositions, if one went by number of performances, or number of times it has been included on "albums", would outrank many songs deemed notable enough for inclusion. Unfortunately, these are rarely reported by name, and the many books that mention them are rarely in English (or make it to the internet, in any case), so this leads to a systemic bias in Wikipedia coverage. Still, there are 9,630 hits on Google — notable enough, I think. Shreevatsa (talk) 20:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I had looked at Google News, which goes through newspaper archives, using "Narayana Ninna Namada" and this got nothing. If it's only "Narayana Ninna" then there are hits but only trivial mentions. At Google books both version give basically as much. There may or may not be a systemic bias. The matter at hand can apparently answered only by checking non-Internet-available sources. Until reliable sources discussing this composition are revealed I'm not convinced of notability. Edit: I saw some content added but that's from the sources I mentioned. I just checked The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians but sadly it had no article on the composition itself and no mention of it in the Indian music section, but that's probably expected since it's too general for specific compositions in Carnatic music. Hekerui (talk) 20:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think there is enough assertion of notability now, even from what is available online — several of the most prominent Carnatic music singers have performed this song; the charting etc. criteria of WP:NSONGS do not make sense for a 16th-century song. Shreevatsa (talk) 13:43, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep It's really difficult to find sources for Carnatic music compositions online. We ought to compare with  to see how well we cover these topics, as Purandara Dasa is iconic to the development of Carnatic Music. When The Hindu refers to the song without even an introduction or tagging the artist, it shows the importance of the composition in that genre. This book has the lyrics and meaning and if someone has access to it, they can add the source; this is another source where the song is included. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  21:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with the sentiment but you didn't add a substantive reason for notability to the article. Hekerui (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There are the two books I linked above, they're just not available online. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  22:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but haven't read them so you can't evaluate them. Hekerui (talk) 22:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I don't share your views on this. The content in the article is verifiable, there's one book where the google view shows that the transliteration and meaning are provided, there's another bit where google says it's available, The Hindu doesn't even think that the composition needs an introduction, and are we really looking to see if a composition from the sixteenth century passes our notability criteria of charting etc? &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  00:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:38, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep A very popular and ancient song in Carnatic classical music. A good start of an article, although the article needs desperate help, and not a delete. prashanthns (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. A song that is 450 years old and we know who the composer is? That's notable in itself in western music! It certainly looks and smells "notable" but because I don't have the wherewithal to ascertain it, I won't vote keep, but it is my opinion. Maybe with a little research and editing by those that can will save the article? --Richhoncho (talk) 10:47, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep I feel that this song is notable enough in its own right but I'm also wondering whether it has ties to - or is indeed the same song as - "Narayan" by The Prodigy and Kula Shaker. The song as performed by Prodigy and Kula Shaker was written by Kula Shaker frontman Crispian Mills but incorporates elements of traditional Indian devotional music, with the song's refrain being "Om Namah Narayana." Maybe there's no connection beyond the use of Narayana -  a name for Vishnu - in the title but then again, maybe the mantra-like chant in the song is derived from "Narayana Ninna Namada". I think we need to ascertain whether its the same song or based on the same song and if so, expand the article accordingly. You can hear Kula Shaker's rendition here in case anyone can identify a similarity. If there is a connection though, that would certainly strengthen the article's notability since "Narayan" was featured on The Prodigy's The Fat of the Land album which reached #1 in both the UK Album Charts and the Billboard 200 in 1997. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 20:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.