Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natalie Sandtorv


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) ansh 666 11:45, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Natalie Sandtorv

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The article, whose details largely are not based on the given sources, gives no indication that Sandtorv meets Wikipedia's standards of notability. There's only one reliable source giving some details, a single piece of local news. That's not enough for an encyclopedia article, and a Google News search didn't find anything further. The tone is unduly promotional. Huon (talk) 02:29, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Just before the PROD went up I did a similar search (with the intent to AfD) and found nothing more than brief mentions and name-drops. Primefac (talk) 02:31, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Changing !vote per the comment by NewYorkActuary below. Primefac (talk) 18:45, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions.  Human 3015   TALK    02:49, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  Human 3015   TALK    02:50, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  Human 3015   TALK    02:52, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete as her name particularly found some links at News but only a few and there's not much else to suggest better improvement and keeping. SwisterTwister   talk  05:16, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep because this remarkable singer and electronica artist, has a series of releaces and performanses internationally with her solo project "Pieces Of Solitude" with impro guitarist John Russell and bands like "Morning Has Ocurred", awarded the Norwegian 2012 "Jazz i sikte" talen award, Når jazzen er målet in Bergens Tidende - http://www.bt.no/kultur/Nar-jazzen-er-malet-2686163.html, and her duo project "The Jist" with the inventive guitarist Torgeir Hovden Standal received good review and 4 stars in All About Jazz for their album The Jist. The Jist: The Jist (2014) - http://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-jist-the-jist-va-fongool-review-by-eyal-hareuveni.php. She performed a duoproject in 2015 together with the British multi instrumentalist Steve Beresford at the Blow Out! festival in Oslo, Norway.Jazz In Oslo: BLOW OUT! FESTIVAL 2015 – MATINÉ - http://www.jazzinoslo.no/kalender/2015-08?. As front singer of the band Morning Has Occurred including with Marte Eberson, touring in Japan and Europe (2014). Ålesunder på 2014-turnéer i Japan og Europa  - http://www.nyttiuka.no/default.aspx?menu=617&id=53865. They also released their self titeled debut album in 2014. They has received good reviews for performances at Norwegian jazz festivals like Midtsommejazz, Nattjazz, Vossajazz, Maijazz, Anjazz, and Balejazz. Morning Has Occurred m/Ålesund Strykerkvartett  - http://jazzinorge.no/arrangement/morning-has-occurred-malesund-strykekvartett-2. Knuand (talk) 11:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Fronting her project "Quiet Songs" she performed at the 2015 JugendJazz festival in her hometown Ålesund - http://jazzinorge.no/arrangement/jugendjazz-natalie-sandtorv-quiet-songs-holum-trio, where she also presented the quartet Rypdal/Sandtorv/Winter/Morland + OL'burger Beats with Jacop Rypdal, the upcomming star guitarist son of Terje Rypdal - http://jazzinorge.no/arrangement/jugendjazz-premiere-rypdalsandtorvwinthermorland-ol-burger-beats. Knuand (talk) 11:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * In 2013 Natalie Sandtorv did a solo project for voice and electronics that was presented at Festspillene i Bergen, where she also presented a children's concert for the music festival. http://jazzinorge.no/intervju/hva-skjer-natalie-sandtorv - Hva skjer, Natalie Sandtorv? - JazzINorge.no Knuand (talk) 10:37, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * With Morning Has Ocurrwed at Balejazz 2013. Årets Balejazz er godt i gang - NRK - http://www.nrk.no/sognogfjordane/sja-bileta-fra-balejazz-1.11023170
 * Natalie Sandtorv stands behind the concert series Playdate in Bergen and Jugend Jazz in Ålesund. Ny konsertserie i Ålesund - http://jazzinorge.no/2015/06/29/ny-konsertserie-i-alesund - JazzINorge.no. Knuand (talk) 11:01, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Natalie Sandtorv performed “Quiet Songs” at The Norwegian National Jazz Scene 2015: Vakker Høstlyd - Aftenposten - https://kundeportal.aftenposten.no/fordeler/tilbud/ny-musikk-og-fantastiske-gjengangere. Knuand (talk) 20:40, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The Jist at the 2015 London Jazz festival: " ... Their sound hints at music, and the radically fragmented vocals, all executed live via electronics, hint at oblique cut-up narratives. On record their titles have a running formula: “The Jist of...” My favourites are “The Jist of Being In Between Jobs” and “The Jist of Being Rejected at Watergate”. This gag could and surely should go on forever. You could easily make a sitcom out of experimental music, though I suppose noone would believe it." FESTIVAL REPORT: Day One of the 2015 Match & Fuse Festival in Warsaw - http://www.londonjazznews.com/2015/06/festival-report-day-one-of-2015-match.html - LondonJazzNews.com, and 12 O'Clock Track: 'The Jist of Being in Between Jobs,' mind-melting Norwegian improv - http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2014/05/28/12-oclock-track-the-jist-of-being-in-between-jobs-mind-melting-norwegian-improv Knuand (talk) 21:01, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. I also note that the unsigned posts are from User:Knuand, the author of the subject article.  NewYorkActuary (talk) 22:54, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Searches turned up mentions, but no in-depth coverage.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:34, 26 October 2015 (UTC) - changing vote, see below.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:43, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * What about: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-jist-the-jist-va-fongool-review-by-eyal-hareuveni.php, http://www.bt.no/kultur/Nar-jazzen-er-malet-2686163.html, http://jazzinorge.no/arrangement/morning-has-occurred-malesund-strykekvartett-2, http://jazzinorge.no/arrangement/jugendjazz-premiere-rypdalsandtorvwinthermorland-ol-burger-beats, and http://jazzinorge.no/intervju/hva-skjer-natalie-sandtorv? Knuand (talk) 23:29, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * "Natalie Sandtorv: vocals, waterphone, harmonium, electronics. Sandtorv is a great improvisor who is currently living in Berlin. She has played mandagsklubben before but never solo!! Come and see this great vocalist take it out all by herself" - http://jazz.dk/en/cphjazz/concerts/15381/ Knuand (talk) 09:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Sandtorv touring in Japan and Europe in 2014 - http://www.nyttiuka.no/default.aspx?menu=617&id=53865 Knuand (talk) 18:28, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
 * London Jazz News: "The Jist at Match&Fuse 2015 in Warsaw - If ACRE veered toward abstraction, Norwegian duo The Jist are basically 'sound art'. Natalie Sandtorv (vocals/Roland SP-404SX) is a Game Of Thrones Diamanda Galas with a battle shriek to go, and Torgeir Hovden Standal (guitar) managed to make the whole venue literally rattle with just a guitar going through a volume pedal and a TC Electronics Mojomojo with some crocodile clips. At times they sound like a dying computer picking through the memory of old songs while it's being switched off. Their sound hints at music, and the radically fragmented vocals, all executed live via electronics, hint at oblique cut-up narratives. On record their titles have a running formula: “The Jist of...” My favourites are “The Jist of Being In Between Jobs” and “The Jist of Being Rejected at Watergate”. This gag could and surely should go on forever. You could easily make a sitcom out of experimental music, though I suppose noone would believe it." FESTIVAL REPORT: Day One of the 2015 Match & Fuse Festival in Warsaw - http://www.londonjazznews.com/2015/06/festival-report-day-one-of-2015-match.html Knuand (talk) 11:34, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - has toured Poland, Norway, and Germany, this passes WP:MUSICBIO. Bearian (talk) 00:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - seems to be enough out there.--Milowent • hasspoken 04:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think that's what it comes down to -- whether the cites offered by User:Knuand are enough.  I'm counting fourteen cites on this page (not counting the duplicate listings).  I concede that the AllAboutJazz cite offers an in-depth look at an album by a group to which Sandtorv belongs.  The JannInNorge cites are mostly concert listings with short press-release types of descriptions.  Unless I missed something, the NRK cite is just a photo of her on stage in a group performance.  The Jazz.dk cite is nothing more than a listing of group members.  The Jazz in Oslo cite just gives Sandtorv a passing mention of her performance with Beresford.  Most of the rest, although not offering anything more substantive, raise an additional issue -- they are about the group Morning Has Occurred, which already has its own article here.  The MusicBio guidelines are quite clear in stating that notability is not inherited.  And yet, much of what User:Knuand presents to us is intended to imply notability based on Sandtorv's membership in Morning Has Occured.  And finally, nothing in these cites gives us any substantial information about tours.  At best, some of the sources make passing reference to touring Europe and Asia, but there are no details regarding when, how many shows, what size venues, etc.  In all, User:Knuand has not made a compelling case for a stand-alone article.  Instead, I suggest that that the page could be turned into a redirect to Morning Has Occurred.  What does everyone think about that?  NewYorkActuary (talk) 18:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I can agree with a redirect. Primefac (talk) 18:45, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I think redirect is a poor idea. The AllAboutJazz cite is not merely on a band to wich Sandtorv belongs. It is about the duo album The Jist, where Sandtorv is prime partner together with guitarist Torgeir Hovden Standal. The record had a "small part of the hours of material recorded in two days in Bergen with John Hegre, known as a member in the noise duo Jazkamer (with Lasse Marhaug who contributed his uncompromising approach to the sound of many Va Fongool releases} and guitarist in the metal trio Noxagt. Hegre captured faithfully the raw, intense and brutal sound of The Jist. As on other releases of Va Fongool, the design of the impressive cover was given to young promising artist, Henrik Koppen." When the Jazz I Norge articles is concerned, this is an organ for the Norwegian Jazz Federation "What happens, Natalie Sandtorv?" (my translation). This is a feature article focusing on many of her projects. She states "I just finished a split solo tour together with drummer Ole Mofjell in March. We played four concerts in Krakow and Berlin, in addition to concerts in Norway. Solo project for voice and electronics is something I shall also present among others at this year's Festspillene i Bergen. In addition there is a lot of work with my quartet Morning Has Occurred, which in May will be out on tour with Karl Seglem, organized by the Norwegian Jazz Federation, and the Western Norwegian Jazz Centre. It's going to be incredibly nice! We play a mixture of their own and Seglem's compositions, using both bukkehorn, hand pump organ and water phone." (my translation) - http://jazzinorge.no/intervju/hva-skjer-natalie-sandtorv. The other Jazz I Norge article is concerning the new concert seris in Ålesund, Jugendjazz, initiated 2015 by Natalie Sandtorv. "Jugendjazz wish to present the width which exist in today's jazz music, and this year the emphasis is on melodic jazz, jazzy hip hop, standard and modern indie jazz." (my translation) Sandtorv contributes with the quartet project Rypdal/Sandtorv/Morland/Winther where upcoming star guitarist Jakob Fagerlund Rypdal, son of guitar legend Terje Rypdal, in addition to her solo project Quiet Song - http://www.zitty.de/natalie-sandtorv-quiet-songs-modern-vocal-jazz.html. Knuand (talk) 19:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases. Singers and musicians who are only notable for participating in a reality television series may be redirected to an article about the series, until they have demonstrated that they are independently notable. Knuand (talk) 15:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr  \ talk / 02:46, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect - per NewYorkActuary's analysis. After I voted delete, Knuand listed 5 cites as if they showed notability. The first is about the band, in which she is mentioned, hardly in-depth. Second is even a more inconsequential mention. Third, again about the band, and not even that in-depth about them. Fourth is yet another brief mention. Fifth is an interview, therefore a primary source and invalid to use for notability purposes. Clearly not enough in-depth coverage about this singer to show she has enough notability for her own article.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:43, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. Natalie Sandtorv is increasingly present on the music scenes with many projects and a solo album, where do you want to redirect her? This is her entry at Allmusic: http://www.allmusic.com/artist/natalie-sandtorv-mn0003264451/credits, at All About Jazz - The Jist: The Jist (2014): http://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-jist-the-jist-va-fongool-review-by-eyal-hareuveni.php, and Forced Exposure - SANDTORV, NATALIE: Pieces of Solitude - http://www.forcedexposure.com/Catalog/sandtorv-natalie-pieces-of-solitude-lp/VAF.012LP.html Knuand (talk) 10:47, 15 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.