Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/National Junior Clasical League state chapters


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. No need for settling this in an AfD, this should've been worked out at the talk pages. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 14:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

National Junior Clasical League state chapters

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Single editor (User:Reywas92)has made sweeping changes to multiple different articles without any discussion. User has grouped state chapter articles of National Junior Classical League by redirecting each of these pages to newly created group article. Each of these indiv. state chapter articles have been in existence for some time, have been the subject to debate and discussion, and ongoing constructive editing. Many of these indiv. articles have multiple citations from reliable sources demonstrating notability. I consider Reywas92's recent edits unconstructive and bordering on vandalism. This article is fundamentally unnecessary as: A) The National organization has a sub-section regarding these state chapters, and B) Many of these state chapters have their own pages.

Replacing North Dakota article w/ redirect Replacing Ohio article w/ redirect Replacing Florida article w/ redirect Replacing Illinois article w/ redirect Replacing Kentucky article w/ redirect [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Massachusetts_Junior_Classical_League&diff=prev&oldid=362011882 Replacing Mass. article w/ redirect] Replacing New Hampshire article w/ redirect Replacing North Carolina article w/ redirect Replacing Texas article w/ redirect MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 03:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep and reformat. This page can be usefully used in showing an overview of every chapter, but keeping this much information for fifty chapters would likely make the page ripe for getting split up in the end. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have already reverted all the pages. MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 04:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to engage them on their talk page so we can figure this out. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Who is "them"? All of this was the work of a single editor.  Are you simply trying to get others involved?  MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 04:31, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have put up links to this discussion on each of the state chapter discussion pages. MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 04:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm referring to the editor in a neutral tone so I don't risk pissing them off should I get the gender wrong. I've already done it once and it was a doozy. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. I was just confused regarding sing. v. plural.  MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 04:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Even with only a brief section for each chapter, a group-page would quickly balloon beyond a reasonably sized single article. WP:Article size  It also seems absurdly redundant to have both indiv. and group pages.  MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 05:06, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really, I could fix up everything on the page later today to make that happen. I see nothing wrong with doing so. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 06:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep merged list and Delete state pages. I apologize for my hasty actions, but the state pages are full of non-notable, nonencyclopedic information. There is no reason to list all the non-notable student officers from the past three years, nor is it necessary to list every school in the state with an associated Latin program. The North Carolina page is the worst, being a vanity list of winners of non-notable contests: the author put his name in the article multiple times. Much information is in-universe details relevant only to those connected to the topic, like convention winners, uncited bragging, and specific team names and members (Texas). The pages' content includes redundant summaries of what the JCL is, like the colors, song, and creed. It is simply unnecessary to have articles for each state chapter, and I will AFD them should a solution not be found here. As a member of the Indiana JCL, I know that a state chapter is not necessarily notable on its own. Being local chapters of a national organization, they do not pass WP:CLUB; these articles lack secondary sources with substantial coverage. I went through the chapter directory and saw that few states except the largest even had their own websites. I know that even if most states had information about them, a merged page would not be too long. Reywas92 Talk 16:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just so you know, I am in the process of removing some of that information. I do believe that the North Carolina one was the epitomy of how bad it has gotten and I have already substantially cleaned that one up. I did copy paste the original pages for a basic start, but I'm sure we can fix them all up. Unfortunately, they have been left to be crowded in a lot of crap that really should have never been there in the first place. If you are willing to work with me, I am sure we can figure something out here. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 17:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep state pages and delete merged list. There are plenty of third-party sources for each state chapter that could bring each article to meet WP:CLUB. If the pages are restored, I will gladly find, add, and cite these third-party sources for all of the JCL state chapter articles, not just the OJCL like I've been doing. In my opinion, these wild changes are reckless edits and they need to be reverted. Oxguy3 16:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * They were restored right after this page was created. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 16:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I noticed that right after my first post and forgot to come back here and change it. I'm gonna start working on improving those pages. Oxguy3 16:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What third-party references??? This is the only subtantial link, other than some school press releases, all on the Ohio page. Maybe keep that one, but the rest have zero outside references. Please prove it and start finding those. I don't understand why the *must be* a separate article for these anyway. My philosophy is not to have a separate page if it cleanly fits within another, and these do. There is simply not enough information to warrant their own pages. Reywas92 Talk 17:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to counter that argument with this. There is a possibility that some of these chapters don't publish information because the web publishers don't have access to that sort of stuff. I know the ones for my state's JCL, and I can attest to the fact that the only promotional stuff they publish are photos and results for certamen and other stuff like that. If you can tell me your formula for finding these links while excluding the self-promotional stuff, then please tell me because it's going to me near impossible to find them the way I am going about it. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:31, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.