Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/National awakening of Macedonians


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Nomination withdrawn. This is a redirect and thus not appropriate for discussion at AFD. No prejudice against nomination at WP:RFD if someone thinks it is an inappropriate redirect. RL0919 (talk) 00:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

National awakening of Macedonians

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POV title JokerXtreme (talk) 11:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep What is POV about the title? National awakening is a common phrase to refer to nationalism. Are you objecting to the term "Macedonian?" I don't understand, either way. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  18:14, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This page was created just today, basically just to host a redirect to the main article. The article is about a concept that a small minority of ethnic Macedonian extreme nationalists pursuits. That is to expand modern Macedonia beyond its current borders and incorporate lands that now are part of its various neighbors. The title "National awakening" has connotations of national liberation and national consciousness. In a few words the creator adds POV by renaming aggressive nationalism to a kind of a innocent patriotism. This is in no way supported by sources and constitutes a POV.--JokerXtreme (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My impartial/totally uninformed bystander eyes note that the article that it links to also refers to "national awakening" several times, including in one source. I think you are basing your conclusion on the "connotations" you suppose the phrase has. Either way, it seems an enormous stretch to call this POV, to me. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  18:48, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * One more comment: you say "The article is about a concept that a small minority of ethnic Macedonian extreme nationalists pursuits. That is to expand modern Macedonia beyond its current borders and incorporate lands that now are part of its various neighbors." That's not accurate at all, as far as I can tell. The article concerns itself with history dating back to the 19th century. Am I misunderstanding your comment? ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  18:53, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * To tell the truth, I got it mixed up with United Macedonia. But still, I think there are enough reasons to delete this blank redirect page. What are those pages you are talking about? I'm not aware of them. --JokerXtreme (talk) 18:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, that explains that, hehe. And, to tell -you- the truth, I misspoke/misread the other articles that I would be referring to here if I hadn't misspoke/misread ;). So I'll redact that particular comment, although I still stand by my other comments. Will probably hold off on further comment until someone else checks in here -- don't think I have anything else to add. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  19:06, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:35, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:36, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:36, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bulgaria-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Macedonia-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Serbia-related deletion discussions.  -- JokerXtreme (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I want to add that national awakening/revival is the (re)emergence of nationalism. It's not the same. One more reason to delete this redirect. --JokerXtreme (talk) 08:39, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't follow why this is a reason to delete. The article the redirect is linking to is very plainly about the emergence of nationalism in this people. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  09:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Still just you and me here, but another point in favor of keeping occurred to me -- the first portion ("History") of the article it's redirecting to is explicitly about a Macedonian national awakening/revival (the phrase is used in the text, and the text covers things like "national consciousness" and "liberation," as you reference above). Redirects are often used when the redirect topic is covered as part of a larger article, which appears to me to be the case here. I still fail to see any reason to remove this redirect. It's completely harmless and is useful. I still have no idea how it's supposed to be pushing a POV -- at worst, it's pushing a definition of the phrase "national awakening" that you personally disagree with, and that is very far from being grounds for deletion (and I'm not even sure I understand your definition of "national awakening" or that the redirect actually conflicts with it, at this point). We should only delete content when it helps the encyclopedia to delete it, and in this case it seems clear to me that deleting it isn't helping, and is arguably hurting, assuming that others (and this is obviously the case) don't share your view of what "national awakening" means. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  09:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hm, I shouldn't have put this in AfD. It's not an article. I should have put it in Redirects for discussion. Anyway, let's see if someone else comments here, there's no meaning to continue this just the two of us. --JokerXtreme (talk) 09:41, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy close This isn't an article, it's a Redirect. Take it to RfD if so inclined. Ray  Talk 19:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy close I'm the nominator. --JokerXtreme (talk) 20:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.