Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natural Doctrine


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!   ·  &#9993;  12:09, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Natural Doctrine

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WP:NOTCRYSTAL, specifically the section concerning upcoming product announcements. All sources are essentially press releases. Eggishorn (talk) 19:32, 8 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: I don't seem to understand how WP:CRYSTAL negates notability, or how WP:CRYSTAL is relevant in the first place. This is the first game that is independently developed by Kadokawa, which in Japan is a really big name in the games industry. Not to mention, really important people are behind the project: many people in Japan know individuals like Atsushi Ikariya. Can you explain how this topic is not notable? Keep in mind that there is no deadline, and that improvement of the article content is always possible. -- benlisquare T•C•E 09:56, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Reply to issues raised. In the same way that coverage of upcoming albums can notability requires more than "game company X accounced Y" coverage that tends to be little more than barely-rewritten pres releases.  Having a big name behind the game I don't feel helps matters much, either.  The game industry in particular is prone to vaporware, especially in the import market.  I would wait until at least a shipping date was announced before I created such an article, just to see if it was possible for the game to make an impact.  Too many Duke Nukem 3D's have taught me that glowing coverage of future games should be treated with great skepticism.  But that's why I listed this game here, so that the community could discuss the issue and other parties could weigh in.  Eggishorn (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It isn't an usual thing for videogames to have their articles a few months prior to release; it's been a general norm for quite a while at WP:WikiProject Video games for pre-release games with established notability to have articles. There is a difference between generic shovelware and games that definitely are notable. This game is due for an early 2014 release, which isn't too far away at all. Regarding your comment "especially in the import market" - Who said that the United States is the center of the world? Are people in Japan "importing" Japanese games? I honestly haven't played an "import" game in five years, since I play them in their unadulterated Japanese form, as do 120 million other Japanese people, in addition to millions of other gamers throughout Asia with Japanese language competency. Assuming that the western gaming market is the centre of the world is a bad assumption to base notability on. Notability is established via coverage by third party reliable sources, and this game is well covered in this aspect. This isn't some kind of "niche title" as you might think; this is supposed to be a Japanese release title for the PlayStation 4. In other words, Sony is counting on this game, along with other PS4 release titles, to move console sales. -- benlisquare T•C•E 00:22, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * And in case you're still not convinced that there is significant third-party coverage, here is a Google.co.jp search for "ナチュラル ドクトリン". -- benlisquare T•C•E 00:31, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 14:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep Famitsu says that the game is in production. What looks like fairly substantial gameplay footage in the trailers on the official website also indicates that this game is far along in production. WP:CRYSTAL applies to films, games, etc. that are still supposedly in pre-production, but upcoming films appear to get their own articles once they enter production and I haven't seen any evidence that the policy applies differently to video games. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 12:47, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.