Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Neil Ohlenkamp


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:05, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Neil Ohlenkamp

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The article relies heavily on JudoInfo.com, which despite its general title, is the subject's own website, and on blurbs for books that derive from self-submitted information. In seeking to correct the article and to expand it (it claimed a book for which he wrote the foreward as authored by him, and almost entirely omitted his coaching, which is what he is known for including work with one year's US Paralympics team and one year's US Disabled Games team—the one incoming link is a See also at Paralympic judo), I found nothing online except when I used Google to search within the website for the United States Judo Association. This includes nothing on his own competition record: his page at Judobase appears to be blank, and a search at JudoInside.com came up with no results. Nothing in Google newspapers archive search, either. It is possible that someone in the know can find an entry for him in a database with useful information, or archived news coverage that I haven't been able to shake loose (I don't have access to Newspapers.com, for example), or that his book has made more of a splash than indicatedby my search turning up only one review, on a specialist site and by a writer who trains with the subject. But I have been unable to find evidence that he meets the notability guidelines. Yngvadottir (talk) 00:48, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:07, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:35, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Google books has many sources that appear to have coverage in Neil Ohlenkamp in scrolling through the first ten pages; including articles in Black Belt as well as books. From what I can see, it looks like WP:SIGCOV and WP:SPORTSBASIC may be met by what can be found there.4meter4 (talk) 03:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I admit I quit after 3 pages, but did you find any extended coverage? I found many references to his expertise—including citations of his website (which claims to have been a pioneering internet page for judo information) and 2 quotes in "The Greatest Collection of Humorous Sporting Quotations Ever!"—and his activities running his club. This supports his work for the National Braille Institute; this mention supports his coaching the US Blind Judo team. I see a mention that may indicate his day job was with the Social Security Administration in Santa Barbara, a Senate Committee staff listing, and a genealogy book that may give his date and place of birth, but per BLPI'm reluctant to link those here as they could be another person of the same name. But are there any extended articles about him, as opposed to brief notes and things he has written himself? I don't see any. In the absence of any, what are our current standards for coaches? I understand that Olympic athletes who didn't medal are no longer automatically notable; surely the requirements for a one-year Paralympic coach are at least as high, but as I say I think there's news coverage I can't see. I rooted through the LA Times archive and found only this on him coaching blind athletes and this mention as the coach of Lynn Manning (which I intend to use to improve that article if nobody else does, but with regard to Ohlenkamp, it falls under WP:NOTINHERITED IMO). The most promising avenue, I think, would be to argue that he's had a transformative effect on his sport, but I'm not finding enough despite his own claims for his website. There are a lot of martial arts entrepreneurs who make big claims, run successful dojos, and publish articles and book forewords. Does Google show you anything better than I've summarized? Yngvadottir (talk) 07:10, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:14, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I found no evidence of him being notable as a judo competitor. Rank and teaching classes do not show WP notability.  I didn't see any significant independent coverage of him that shows WP:GNG is met.  It's great that he coaches blind athletes, but independent coverage of him seems to be more in passing. Papaursa (talk) 18:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Author of a notable Judo book, Creator of the most popular Judo website, well known coach for Judo. Passes GNG.   BlackAmerican (talk) 09:05, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem I have is that all of that info comes from a web page he wrote on the website he created and the book was reviewed by one of his students. There is nothing that doesn't come from him, his students, or organizations he's involved with.  None of that counts as independent coverage.  It's very likely he wrote the usjjf.com article on himself.  FWIW, USA Judo is the U.S. judo organization recognized by the International Judo Federation which is the sport's international governing body (as recognized by the Global Association of International Sports Federations). Papaursa (talk) 12:23, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * commennt is this independent coverage?  BlackAmerican (talk) 14:00, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * A social media business that wants to use judo analogies mentions him and his website. It's not clear if the company is independent of Ohlenkamp (i.e., no business dealings) and there's no evidence the source you asked about is reliable (as WP defines it).  Mentioning his site is pretty weak for claiming significant coverage.  All in all, I don't think this source helps him meet WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 22:42, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:36, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Nswix (talk) 21:26, 7 November 2022 (UTC) Relisting comment: Final relist Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I dont see any independent coverage of him and his Judo accomplishments on their own don't meet WP:GNG
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete His name pops up on Bleacher Report as a citation used in a history article. Nothing else found about him, it's pretty much basic facts (schooling, later life). Oaktree b (talk) 02:00, 14 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.