Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nelly Yoa


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I'm going to IAR here and close this early. This is a pretty close copy of a deleted article from 2016, BLP violations and all. I'm also going to salt it because I don't want this happening again. Katietalk 23:05, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Nelly Yoa

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I've debated whether this article can be saved or not, but I think that most of the references are too much based on what Yoa claimed to a trusting journalist, rather than what a truly independent journalist finds, to be considered reliable sources. His sporting career is entirely non-notable. It's full of "almost signed", "poised to sign", "going to" or self-referenced interview information. There is no evidence anywhere from a primary or reputable database/sporting records website of him playing at a fully professional level, in association or Australian rules football. I'm not an expert on soccer, but his Aussie rules experience is being invited to train by an AFL club (probably more as a multicultural promotion as a real pathway to playing in the AFL), and then playing in a local amateur league (and AFL doesn't have any promotion/relegation to make lower league clubs notable). The social work, motivational speaking and becoming a "go-to" spokesman for the Sudanese community in Australia, is I think why this article exists. It is to provide backup and credibility to his positioning as a community leader - and that it back to front to how wikipedia should work. The-Pope (talk) 03:20, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. The-Pope (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. The-Pope (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete A lot of what Nelly has said seems to be fake and not make sense, his wikipedia page just seems to enhance his repuatation Natos0 (talk) 02:09, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Even if he's notable, the article is such a mess that this is a rare case of WP:TNT. Jack N. Stock (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG and doesn't meet anything else. Seems he is very good at marketing himself. The articles are all interviews with him and nothing confirmed that he was actually like going to be playing for Melbourne Victory before the injury happen. NZFC  (talk) 03:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 05:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete I do not think it passes WP:NFOOTBALL. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 05:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * courtesy approved article. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:39, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I've been following. I think the case for notability (ignoring the promotional effects) largely succeeds or fails based on the attack and subsequent events that follow from it, rather than sports, and that that argument is marginal enough that I'm abstaining.  (Consensus seems apparent here, in any case.)  --joe deckertalk 01:25, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 07:04, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 07:04, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete: He is 100% not notable for sports. Examples of these potentially incorrect claims he has made include playing "professionally" for two extremely large English Premier League teams (Queens Park Rangers & Chelsea). While this is "original research" of a kind I could find no evidence that this ever happened beyond maybe trial periods, nor is there evidence he played senior Victoria Premier League matches for either Oakleigh or Springvale. Nor the team from Malta. He doesn't show up in any major Football player database (eg, Transfermarkt). He also claimed to have played NCAA level Basketball for Cincinnati, again I found no evidence that he ever played for this nationally broadcasted high ranking college basketball team. The claims he's making in athletics (in particular his 100 meter & 200 meter "personal bests"), would put him at an Australian ranking near the 100, among full time professional and career amateurs (example, his 100 meter time is better than an Australian Olympic decathlon representative). Macktheknifeau (talk) 12:07, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * On general notability, I do not consider being used as a "source" or "expert" (ie, on so called "African Gangs") by a handful of news organisations makes himself inherently notable, and the machete attack from which his connection to the media comes from isn't either. Delete. Macktheknifeau (talk) 12:07, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and above.--Rpclod (talk) 14:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note this is getting close to a CSD situation. See this article. The-Pope (talk) 04:20, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * We've cleaned up the puffery. If there is anything else that lacks a WP:RS, it's easy enough to remove or correct. Jack N. Stock (talk) 06:35, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Simione001 (talk) 09:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. The claims to notability are dubious at best, and cannot be verified.  He is perhaps a top shelf self-promoter (a career in property development no doubt beckons), but not much else.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:49, 7 January 2018 (UTC).
 * Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 16:05, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment There are now even doubts about his community work as per here. This is seeming more and more like he has done the self promotion and is only now getting caught out. NZFC  (talk) 22:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: It appears that the Australian sporting (Football) media had sussed him out a long long time ago, but those who saw him as a source or expert for the Sudanese community did not do any basic fact checking regarding either his sporting or community work. Can anyone think of any specific pages where he might fit as a sub-section on hoaxes, fraudsters, or for journalists being duped by such? Would this exposure lead to him coming 360 degrees back around to notability stemming from that? (with suitably rewritten articles) Macktheknifeau (talk) 07:23, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I was actually wondering that too with now the amount he is getting written about are we back to meeting WP:GNG because of the machete attack (which does appear to be true) and the getting caught out lying in multiple places. NZFC  (talk) 07:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. We can have articles about hoaxes per WP:NHOAX, but is this really a notable hoax? Nelly Yoa is no Piltdown Man... Jack N. Stock (talk) 23:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment, I was starting to wonder about whether the amount of coverage questioning Yoa's story might actually push him past the GNG. I think it's still a WP:BLP1E case though.  It's strange though, he's hardly the first young man to embellish his exploits in life and get busted, but it seems if you're white you don't get the same attention in the papers as Yoa has.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 23:23, 8 January 2018 (UTC).
 * Comment. Whatever the reason, I'm looking at the many reports from major news sources: Huffington Post, Herald Sun, SBS, News.com.au, front page on The Age... He passes WP:GNG, but this is already a dead issue, and you are correct that WP:BLP1E applies. I think someone should WP:SNOWCLOSE. Jack N. Stock (talk) 01:20, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 01:01, 9 January 2018 (UTC).
 * Keep. I'd suggest re-having this discussion after the coverage on the subject has died down per WP:RAPID. It's simply too early to be having the argument as to whether he has lasting notability in relation to this latest "web of lies" stuff or not, even when considering WP:NOTNEWS. The subject has received significant ongoing coverage even since the article was AfDed. Looking at coverage of him across the last two years, it's arguable that he now has had significant, independent coverage. WP:BLP1E certainly doesn't apply given he's been covered in the Mail Online and the Leader about machete attacks in August 2016, the Ballarat Courier about the birth of his child and friendship with Usain Bolt in November 2016, Media Watch about the Daily Mail connecting him with Apex in February 2017, and stories in various Leader papers in the February, March and April of 2017. 10+ straight days of major news coverage might support a view that the GNG has been met when looked at with hindsight, especially given how the current coverage relates to the public profile he's built for himself over past coverage. If article quality is the issue, maybe draftifying the article could be the way to go. Kb.au (talk) 14:30, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd support moving it to draft if someone wants to work on it. I'm sure over time the facts will be established, which will provide opportunity to improve the article to comply with WP:BLP. Jack N. Stock (talk) 18:05, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The article birth of his child and friendship with Usain Bolt has been pulled from the web. Here is the archived copy birth of his child and friendship with Usain Bolt veeblefetzer (talk) 12:09, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete News articles are now appearing to discredit him. Herald Sun Fox Sports SBS  One includes admissions from him that there was some story fabrication, yet he also blames the press for some the lies.  He appears to misinterpret interactions with famous people as being intimate and personal.  veeblefetzer (talk) 11:42, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment The additional sources provide an argument to keep per WP:GNG and by helping to resolve the WP:BLP issues. Jack N. Stock (talk) 12:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I agree with the position on WP:GNG. However, if you remove the falsehoods about this person from the view of him, his life becomes more like many others with the exception of being attacked with a machete.  There are literally millions of humans contributing to community organizations and playing sport at a semi professional level.  I supposed if the article was to details his fraudulent claims then I guess that would be worth reading.  veeblefetzer (talk) 22:06, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. The GNG is a test which relates to how significantly something is covered in reliable independent sources. It isn't a moral judgement on the importance of someone's career. Kb.au (talk) 22:12, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I said I agreed on the GNG. My point is that his life isn't much different than most others.   Do we make a page for every human on the planet? veeblefetzer (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Nelly Yoa has stated his recent claims are false. Wikipedia must not keep a page based on lies and unverified information. (malusilvap) 10:53, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Well there ya have it. The creator of the page wants it terminated.  That's got to say something.  veeblefetzer (talk) 22:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. Discussions on Wikipedia are determined by community consensus. The creator's viewpoint is no more important than anybody elses view. Kb.au (talk) 22:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.