Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Neon Genesis Evangelion


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn; this was a bad decision based on a misreading. I will go with an RFC instead.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 13:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Six years ago, the page located at this title was about the animated series currently located at Neon Genesis Evangelion (anime). At some point, there was a discussion (I've not seen proof) that resulted in the anime getting a disambiguated page title and Neon Genesis Evangelion becoming a "franchise" page to cover all media relating to the anime.

A few days ago I proposed on WT:ANIME that the project coordinates a massive restructuring of the pages such that the current "franchise page" is merged into Neon Genesis Evangelion (anime) and that article is made into the primary topic (as well as some work on Neon Genesis Evangelion (manga)) as seen here. While some of the editors of the WikiProject agreed and thought it would be a good idea, a group of editors (including one who personally does not see eye to eye with me over a similar dispute on another article) have vociferously opposed as they feel the page has its necessity as the anime apparently does not qualify as primary topic anymore. Page view data shows that over the last 90 days this article had 368697 hits compared to the 318727 the "(anime)" page received in the same time period, suggesting that so many people just type in "Neon Genesis Evangelion" and then hop on over to the anime page in the dab link.

In addition, none of the sources in the article reference that the franchise is something that even exists. Yes, there are multiple media adaptations, but they are all derivations of the original television series and should be discussed within the context of that rather than having everything discussed separately. Franchise pages have their place when there are so many different things to discuss. This is barely the case with Evangelion, where the anime spawned everything that came after and everything that has been released is a derivation of the original TV series with slight changes to character interpretation or some events (the manga which has been published on and off for the past 25 years and technically before the anime and the recent film quadrilogy examples of such).

As this is such a high profile topic, I must emphasize that I acknowledge that "Neon Genesis Evangelion" is notable. That is not the reason for this AFD. This has to do with properly restructuring several articles when a WikiProject described by those who have opposed as "moribund" and "stagnant and decaying" will apparently not be able to coordinate proper work, despite the fact that several other editors agree with my proposal. The insular nature of this group simply means that nothing will properly get done, so the wider audience of articles for deletion is needed to gauge what should be done.

To summarize, the franchise/top level/topic level/whatever format currently used at Neon Genesis Evangelion does not work. Neon Genesis Evangelion (anime) should be at this title instead, and a bulk of the current article should be incorporated into the "(anime)" page instead of having a glorified disambiguation page. — Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:34, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


 * No. It's "no" and not "keep" because it is about the whole reasoning above. While I understand Ryulong reasoning, the "glorified disambiguation page" is instead massively useful for readers, and diluting the information in the "(anime)" page would be detrimental both to the page (bloating it), and to the readers (who would have to go there to find all the spawned stuff). Also: that all of that spawned from the anime is not a reason to include it in the anime article, just like we don't put birds as a section of dinosaurs, even if we know well the birds are a spawn of dinosaurs. To sum up, this is a case where trying to tidy up actually becomes harmful to readers and articles. Not counting the fact that you're asking for cleanup, and not for the deletion of an article per se, therefore this is bordering on disruptive. The outcome should be: speedy keep+ discuss it elsewhere. -- cyclopia  speak!  12:41, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep - AFD is not the place to discuss such a restructuring. Do this at the WikiProject or an RFC or something, and then request the help of an Admin if deletion is necessary in the consensus that forms. Sergecross73   msg me   12:56, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - The fact that multiple titles of completely different media use Neon Genesis Evangelion as their title is one thing, the fact that a manga, an anime, and some video games all use the title. Other NGE works include other video games which are related to their own canon, the Rebirth Death, Death2, End of Evangelion, the tetralogy Rebuild movies, the novel, the other mangas including a manga spin off from the video game. The completely unrelated pachi-type games (which are not casino games, but are on handhelds...). The numerous radio dramas, line of mecha and other toys... even the cultural impact based on this really convoluted set of materials. Let's not forget we are actually missing a lot of content and we cannot even fully grasp the books and movies released - many are not even related to the anime. The anime page should not be the main page because it is such a disservice to the readers and so confusing - and a small disamb will do nothing. Given Ryulong's previous action in this area, his inclusion relegates other media to single sentences. And remember, the anime wasn't even the first release. It was the manga which ran for 18 years. Current productions are the Rebuild series which reimagines the events of the anime. All arguments about "views" are strawman arguments because the anime gets more viewers in some days then the topic level page, but the Rebuild and other articles get tens of thousands of views as well, with 180,000+ views on are ailing Rebuild section alone. This deletion simply is destructive and limiting. Our readers and their comprehension of the subject is paramount to Wikipedia's success as a viable source of information - let's not purposely make the confusing topic even more confusing to them by throwing up barriers to accessing topic-level information about what Evangelion is, what it contains and why it is important as a whole. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 13:07, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:36, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:37, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.