Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nevada Stoody Hayes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure)  NNADI GOOD LUCK  ( Talk &#124; Contribs ) 11:14, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Nevada Stoody Hayes

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Claim to notability is being at one point married to a pretender to the Portuguese throne (until he died about three years after). Honestly when I stumbled upon the article, I thought it was a hoax based on the sheer lack of sources or information on her from pre-wikipedia times...I have confirmed she does exist, but it seems fairly clear that there is really not that much on her life, at least in any English language sources. Jerry (talk) 00:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Jerry  (talk) 00:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Jerry  (talk) 00:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. Jerry  (talk) 00:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. I could not find anything more than a passing mention in either a normal Google search or a Google Books search. – UnnamedUser (talk; contribs) 01:17, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per UnnamedUser. Much like as I said in a previous AfD discussion, marriage isn't a way to gain notability. It's well written, but that dosen't help due to the fact that it is completely unsourced. James-the-Charizard (talk to me!) (contribs) 01:38, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak keep: Regarding sources - an initial search doesn't come up with anything too useful. Here's an archive link for the one source in the article, which is just someone's website, and doesn't say anything more than that she existed and was Afonso of Braganza's wife. Afonso of Braganza cites "Montgomery-Massingberd, Hugh (ed.) Burke's Royal Families of the World (1977), volume 1, page 449" in a paragraph discussing Hayes' marriage in some detail, implying that the book may have significant coverage of Hayes, but the book's offline, so we have to trust that the citation supports the text. And here's something interesting. The article has some huge blockquotes (which should probably be removed) that are presented as being from Caroline Schermerhorn Astor's "400 list" of notable people. Unfortunately, a Google search shows that they're not from there but rather from some guy's blog. But - that blog's about page says These women are included in the book, Crowning Glory: American Wives of Princes and Dukes, with a preface by His Royal Highness Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark. So, let's look up the book - it's offline, and I've never heard of Henchard Press before. Meh...
 * However, newspapers.com brings up some good results. It looks like she was quite a hot topic in the newspapers of the time. These articles, IMO, constitute SIGCOV:, , , and there's more here (might need a subscription to view): While I would like to have some more substantial sources than newspapers, the fact that books discussing her (apparently) exist, plus the age of the subject, plus the fact that she has ties to Portugal, suggest that there are more sources available that are offline or not in English. So I'll have to go with a weak keep here. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 02:21, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep: one of the few americans to have married a senior member of a european royal family. Her inheritance included numerous priceless pieces of portuguese art which were thus separated from Portuguese national patrimony. I think she meets the threshold of notability, as a particularly controversial and unusual royal consort. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 05:40, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 08:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment While I think further I'll just comment that there's a biography of her (in Portuguese) Thincat (talk) 09:54, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks to me that in using this book we'd need to separate out fact from (literary) fiction. In Portuguse it is described as "romance" which seems to have the same connotation as in English though Google books classifies it as biography and autobiography. Thincat (talk) 10:19, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * If this helps, I've found a review of the book which states (according to Google Translate) that Information about a jewelry auction aroused the interest of Ana Anjos Mantua, Coordinator of the Dr. Anastácio Gonçalves House Museum, and launched it into an exhaustive investigation into institutional archives and private collections. Thus came “ the incredible story of Nevada Hayes, wife of D. Afonso, Duke of Porto, ” told in the first person.. The review itself also provides some decent coverage of Hayes. SpicyMilkBoy (talk) 16:22, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That's very helpful. So, I'm clear she's notable but I doubt a non-Portuguese-speaker could cope with the book if it is on the border between novel and biography. Thincat (talk) 16:50, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:12, 21 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Possibly merge to her husband -- She was not a pretender to any throne, though her husband was. Her marriage seems to have been regarded as morganatic, that is not conferring royal status.  Even apart from that she would not have inherited his claim to the throne, because that would devolve according to the national law of succession, not according to the pretender's will.  The royalty of kingdoms are commonly notable, though distant relatives of a monarch may not be.  Pretenders (claimants to abolished thrones) will probably be notable, though not necessarily when abolition is so distant an event that the possibility of restoration is illusory.  However there non-royal relatives are not necessarily notable.  This is a common situation in WP with nobility (WP:NOTINHERITED).  A common solution is to merge a summary of a wife's bio to her notable husband, leaving the usual redirect.  Peterkingiron (talk) 12:21, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep There is coverage in contemporary newspapers, digitised on Newspapers.com, from at least 1909-1961. I did not find anything searching for "Nevada Stoody Hayes", but plenty for "Nevada Stoody" and for "Nevada Hayes". With the coverage at the time, plus the biography in Portuguese, she certainly meets WP:GNG. The article could do with improvement - the newspaper articles have some info about her early life - but article quality is not a reason for deletion. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:56, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Article quality isn't the issue. Her notability is her marriage to the by-then pretender of the Portuguese throne, which besides lasting a couple of years, did not include her in the succession. She's barely more notable than other socialites of the era, and as someone noted before, the book on her life may partially be based on fiction, means it probably isn't a reliable indicator of WP:GNG. Jerry (talk) 16:39, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:13, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment She doesn't need to have done anything - WP:GNG states that "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list." She did receive significant sustained coverage, in reliable sources across the US, starting several years before she married Afonso of Braganza. She was already notable when she married him. I will add sources and info to the article. RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:51, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep agree per . IMO, she was the Princess Royal of Portugal, but the Portuguese royal family rejected her. However, she was a particularly controversial and unusual royal princess consort. Idolmm (talk) 19:26, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep sufficient write-ups back in the day to support notability.NotButtigieg (talk) 06:47, 4 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.