Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Rochelle (Zip-Code Areas), New York


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete -- JForget  23:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

New Rochelle (Zip-Code Areas), New York

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a redundant article about a subject (zip code areas within a city) that is not obviously of encyclopedic merit. This is the only article that I can find focused on the zip code areas of a specific U.S. city. Only one of the three names given in the article for specific zip code areas is recognized by the US Postal Service as an alternate name for the zip code area (the other neighborhood names look like original research). That one named area is Wykagyl, which is the subject of its own separate article that includes some of the same content as this article. The focus of the article is on census data, but zip codes are not a basic unit for presenting demographic data. The Zip-Code Tabulation Areas used in this article as a basis for data presentation are not primary units for Census data collection but are approximations; if someone wants to know about specific neighborhoods within the city, they could work with data for census tracts or block groups, which are the units that the Census reports. The New Rochelle, New York article presents data for the places described in the article. If there is a perceived need to discuss the zip code areas of New Rochelle, the content of this article should be merged into that one, but I think that deletion of the article would be more sensible. Orlady (talk) 20:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.   —Orlady (talk) 20:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * To clarify, ZIP Code Tabulation Areas (ZCTAs) ((are a new statistical entity developed by the United States Census Bureau for tabulating summary statistics from Census 2000. This new entity was developed to overcome the difficulties in precisely defining the land area covered by each ZIP Code. Defining the extent of an area is necessary in order to accurately tabulate census data for that area. ZCTAs are generalized area representations of United States Postal Service (USPS) ZIP Code service areas. Simply put, each one is built by aggregating the Census 2000 blocks, whose addresses use a given ZIP Code, into a ZCTA which gets that ZIP Code assigned as its ZCTA code. They represent the majority USPS five-digit ZIP Code found in a given area)). Census data as collected and organized according to zip-code is the common source of information listed in the 'demographics' section of wikipedia town/city articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.2.128.106 (talk • contribs) 04:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC) — 210.2.128.106 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.   NOTE: additional tag inserted by Orlady reflects the opinion of user, DOES NOT reflect Wiki policy or guidelines (see WP:ESSAYS, WP:EANP, WP:NOTPOLICY )  210.2.128.106 is the author of the "NOTE" prior to this one, and similar ones elsewhere on this page.


 * Delete The point of the article may be to show, with statistics, the differences between three sections of New Rochelle, New York. This is one of those occasions where WP:STAT would apply, since it seems to be a stream of statistics that don't show much in particular.  The "Castle" area has a smaller percentage of white people than "Wykagl", I get that, but zip code areas are among the more arbitrary geographical definitions in existence.  Perhaps the author can reorganize this into a table rather than the straight narrative, and make that part of the article about the city. Mandsford (talk) 21:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "Demographics" sections of other municipalities typically consist of data from census zip-code assessments. The significant demographic differences found within this particular city arent so easily seen when looking at census measurements for the city as a whole. The breakdown between its three zip-codes helps paint a clearer picture of the substantial socio-economic disparity and ethic/racial differences between city residents, by enabling the reader to contrast information. This page might have been created to avoid making the main article too lengthy(?) Possibly this article should be renamed and a new introduction written to more accurately define its purpose.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.74.196.214 (talk) 21:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)  — 64.74.196.214 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.   NOTE: additional tag inserted by Orlady reflects the opinion of user, DOES NOT reflect Wiki policy or guidelines (see WP:ESSAYS, WP:EANP, WP:NOTPOLICY )


 * Delete Non-notable subject. Ecoleetage (talk) 20:55, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. The article is not about zip-codes per se, its about the different sections in a city. To the extent that it isn't original research, its notable. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 21:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Now Delete. I made the three areas in the city into seperate articles, making this article obsolete. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 21:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you find a reliable source documenting the names of the zip code areas for which you made articles? (I don't see a source cited in your new articles.) As far as I could tell, the zip-code area names "Castle" and "South Side" were original research. --Orlady (talk) 23:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I just copy and pasted it from this article. The ref provided looked legit, so I didn't even bother checking it. Now that I googled it without getting any hits I suspect that there might be some OR going on. Mea maxima culpa. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 04:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. If there is anything of value, move it to New Rochelle (if it is not already there).Ron B. Thomson (talk) 21:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As it happens, User:Brewcrewer has created two new articles from sections of this article (see above) and a brand-new registered user has copied the contents of the article into New Rochelle, New York, so now all of this material is replicated in three different places. --Orlady (talk) 23:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't like ad hominem arguments, but it might be helpful to know that almost all substantive contributions to the article were made by suspected or confirmed sockpuppets of one particular user, and that I have added the new registered user to the current sockpuppetry case. --Orlady (talk) 23:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Zip-code information is frequently used to guage the racial,ethnic and or economic diversity of a specific area, such as in this case. Minor rewording to the lead of the page might help clarify its overall purpose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.74.196.214 (talk • contribs) — 64.74.196.214 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.   NOTE: additional tag inserted by Orlady reflects the opinion of user, DOES NOT reflect Wiki policy or guidelines (see WP:ESSAYS, WP:EANP, WP:NOTPOLICY )


 * Keep information has reference value and is helpful and infomative. Deletion request should be removed so that page can be imrpoved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.237.19.111 (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)  — 123.237.19.111 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.   NOTE: additional tag inserted by Orlady reflects the opinion of user, DOES NOT reflect Wiki policy or guidelines (see WP:ESSAYS, WP:EANP, WP:NOTPOLICY )
 * Delete, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, nor the USPS. Stifle (talk) 22:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * please read the article--if it contained only the sip codes and the boundaries, you'd be right--and I almost made exactly the same mistake when going just by the title.DGG (talk) 01:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I had read it already, although the USPS comment probably isn't relevant. Still violates WP:IINFO. Stifle (talk) 08:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * keep and retitle as Neighborhood of New Rochelle. Its a good combination article. We need it more clearly understood that while eachneighborhood probably should not have an article, a combination one like this is the way to do it. DGG (talk) 01:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is the wrong way to go about writing an article on New Rochelle neighborhoods. Zip code boundaries change all the time (I just got flipped from one into another a couple of years back). Zip codes do have data compiled on them, but are very rarely written about as such (yes, exceptions abound, but these prove the rule). Neighborhood names remain the same over long periods of time and are often written about in reliable sources. Write about those neighborhoods, or a list of those neighborhoods, rather than presenting a prose interface to the U.S. Census Bureau data. --Dhartung | Talk 06:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Discussion at Talk:Wykagyl, New York indicates that there is no basis for equating Wykagyl with zip code 10804. This is apparently based on the personal knowledge of the contributors to the discussion (who are well-established registered users who have not yet contributed to this AfD). Their comments are consistent with the observation that there are no sources for the names used in the article for the other two zip codes. --Orlady (talk) 23:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A According to the (FIPS) Class Code Definitions, 'Wykagyl, New York' falls under: Class U[Communities (Populated Places Not Associated with Facilities] (Specifically Class U4 [Identifies a populated place wholly or substantially within the boundaries of an incorporated place with a different name]. The community of Wykagyl is within the boundaries of the incorporated city of New Rochelle. It is located in the northern portion of the city. All of 'Wykagyl' is covered by the 10804 zip-code. The Wykagyl Station Post Office makes a clear reference to its location in its name. B Also discussed by an earlier user, ("Mail addressed to people in that area can be addressed to "Wykagyl, NY," even though Wykagyl is just a section of New Rochelle). The USPS site lists 'wykagyl' as an acceptable mailing alternative to 'New Rochelle' when sending mail to 10804. New Rochelle includes three zip codes, served from 2 post offices. Two zip-codes (10801, 10805) are served out of the main post office .The main post office handles the greatest number of households in New Rochelle, serving 10801 and 10805 as well as the 10802 zip-code for P.O. boxes. The other post office within the city is ‘Wykagyl Station Post Office’, serving (10804) 'independently' of the main city branch. This means that mail can be sent to addresses in 10804 either using Wykagyl or New Rochelle as the mailing address. When sent using new rochelle, the mail processes at the main post office before being sent over to Wykagyl Station for final distribution. When sent using Wykagyl, the mail goes directly to Wykagyl Station for distribution. (conversely, out-going mail from 10804/Wykagyl is processed and sent out from the Wykagyl Station Post Office ). C The statement ("It shares the 10804 zip code with the greater 'North End') is false. The "North End" of the city is not served by one just one zip-code. The northernmost section of New Rochelle (the northern portion of the "North End") is under the "10583" zip-code of scarsdale town/village (Wilmot, Wilmot Woods). Portions of the "North End" also fall under the "10538" zip-code of neighboring Larchmont village (Larchmont Woods). Additionally, several "North End" areas are are under the "10801" zip-code which covers much of the citys mid-section and downtown area. Correctly understood, not all of the "North End" is part of Wykagyl or a part of the 10804 zipcode. All of 'Wykagyl', however, is covered by that zip-code. D Lastly, the census associates the zip-code areas of New Rochelle with the following names: 10801 as “Castle”, 10805 as “South Side”, 10804 "Wykagyl". The first two names are used only by the census, most likely created for organizational/ reference purposes, since neither has an alternative name associated with them other than New Rochelle. Wykagyl is also used by the census, yet is a pre-existing alternative name for the 10804 zip-code within New Rochelle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.240.212.17 (talk)
 * Wykagyl/10804/New Rochelle zip-code areas - The argument from prior a user (( This article is currently referring to Wykagyl, New York and the zip code 10804 as being the same, which is not correct. Until this edit on May 11, the article correctly stated: "It shares the 10804 zip code with the greater "North End," yet is independently served by the 'Wykagyl Station' branch of the post office." BlueAzure (talk) 19:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC))) is not accurate, both in its initial claim and in its assertion of the 'correct' facts. There needs to be an understanding where/what Wykagyl is.


 * Delete I do have some ambivalence about this, I think what pushed me into the "delete" column was the realization that two of the three areas in the article aren't really recognized "areas" as such, they're nothing more than zip codes, established for nothing more than the convenience of the USPS for delivering mail. (I wasn't aware of that fact until I read the various discussions that are taking place around this issue, BTW, so I'd have to say that this discussion has been most edifying, and I'm grateful to all who are participating.) So if this is really an article about zip codes and nothing more, the question is: Should Wikipedia include articles about every zip code in the United State? Because if we keep this article, that's the road we're heading down. And that's where I'm ambivalent, because I'm not sure that that would be such a bad thing. But I tend to feel that adding thousands of zip-code articles would not be especially useful or enlightening, which is why I'm coning down on the "delete" side. HMishkoff (talk) 13:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Snowball delete. There is no evidence presented that these postal ZIP codes are notable.  The article is redundant and filled with trivia. Bearian (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.