Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Newtown, Lehigh County, Pennsylvania


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. While conflicting sources make this a difficult situation, consensus seems relatively strong that this place is no longer referred to as Newtown, if it ever was at all. Feel free to redirect this article to an appropriate target, if desired. ‑Scottywong | yak _ 18:20, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Newtown, Lehigh County, Pennsylvania

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There is actually no such place called "Newtown" located in Upper Macungie Township. I came across this article by mistake while adding updated maps of Lehigh County. I've gone through great lengths to try to verify the existence of this place. I went to the Township municipality office and they confirmed there simply no such place. I think the mistake stems from the confusion that on rare occasions some people say "newtown" when they talk about Newtown Road, Breinigsville, PA and the neighborhood around it.

Additionally, the article mentions Clover Hill Winery; however Clover Hill is actually in Breinigsville (great place btw), even the reference itself clearly say "9850 Newtown Road, Breinigsville, PA 18031".

The statement "It uses the Breinigsville zip code of 18031." is simply wrong; IT IS Breinigsville! note that the reference used has no mention of Newtown at all.

Finally, the GPS coordinate 40.55056°N, -75.66083°W used in the article are of Newtown Road! in Breinigsville. Cy be r XR ef ☎ 22:32, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions.  Cy be r XR ef ☎ 22:54, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Newton has a record in the Geographic Names Information System, so it is a verified populated place. I checked the U.S. Census Bureau's map of Breinigsville, and the area marked as Newtown isn't actually part of their definition of Breinigsville. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 20:18, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course the area is populated, it's just not called Newtown; it's part of Breinigsville. I can't find THIS Newtown on census.gov, where do you see it? There is Newtown road in Breinigsville; I see Newtown Grant, Pennsylvania and Newtown CDP; but they are not this Newtown.


 * There is a problem with the USGS page (which was published 35 years ago BTW), the coordinates given (40.5506512, -75.6607450). The coordinates are the crossing of Schantz Road (3012) and Newtown Road which is in Breinigsville. Approximate 200 yards from that GPS location (on Schantz rd) is Grim's Greenhouse of Breinigsville ; 20 feet from that GP coordinates is Clover Hill Vineyards & Winery which I already stated above is on Newtown ROAD in Breinigsville. (Here is a street view).


 * US Census:
 * Place within State
 * Newtown borough, Connecticut
 * Newtown town, Indiana
 * Newtown town, Missouri
 * Newtown village, Ohio
 * Newtown borough, Pennsylvania
 * Newtown CDP, Pennsylvania
 * Newtown Grant CDP, Pennsylvania
 * Economic Place
 * Newtown town, Connecticut
 * Newtown township (Bucks County), Pennsylvania
 * Newtown township (Delaware County), Pennsylvania
 * County Subdivision
 * Newtown town, Fairfield County, Connecticut
 * Newtown township, Livingston County, Illinois
 * Newtown village, Hamilton County, Ohio
 * Newtown borough, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
 * Newtown township, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
 * Newtown township, Delaware County, Pennsylvania
 * Newtown district, King and Queen County, Virginia
 * 5-Digit ZIP Code
 * ZIP 06470 (Newtown, CT)
 * ZIP 18940 (Newtown, PA)
 * ZIP 19073 (Newtown Square, PA)
 * ZIP 23126 (Newtown, VA)
 * ZIP 25686 (Newtown, WV)
 * ZIP 47969 (Newtown, IN)
 * ZIP 64667 (Newtown, MO)
 * No "Newtown, Lehigh County" .. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 21:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Here is A Zillow Map of all the properties around the USGS "Newtown" coordinates. Please note there is: 1) no mention of "Newtown", and 2) only mention of Breinigsville. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 21:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep per TheCatalyst31-populated places are considered to be notable. The article should edited using the information that The Catalyst31 had listed.-thank you-RFD (talk) 20:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Did you even read ANYTHING I've said? Of course the area is populated... It's just not called Newtown. It's just a neighborhood in Breinigsville. This is so ridiculous, you trying to keep a non-existent place. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 21:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 16:58, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect. It's marked on USGS topo maps (see here), but since we're finding independent information (i.e. unrelated to GNIS) that contradicts GNIS, it looks like the USGS has made a mistake.  GNIS is normally good enough for an article, but when the subject doesn't exist except in their minds, we shouldn't have an article.  The only reason I'm asking to keep the title as a redirect, rather than outright deleting it, is that something in GNIS is a likely search target.  Nyttend (talk) 02:27, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete No verification the place actually exists. Also the GNIS is not always reliable. The article as written just seems to promote the winery.
 * Delete This place simply doesn't exist. Nobody speaks of it, so it probably does not exist, unless there is a pact to make this a secret town that no outsiders will ever know of. I seriously doubt that Newtown exists, and after reviewing the information, have come to the conclusion to delete the article. 123chess456 (talk) 06:42, 14 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Relist and email USGS. Issues reported to gnis_manager@usgs.gov, such as a previous error at the article on Peak Eight, have been resolved by the USGS in AfD-like time frames. There's no reason to not make use of the opportunity to not only improve our encyclopedia, but also, as a side-effect, help the USGS improve their own. --j⚛e deckertalk 20:51, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I actually tried contacting them last week but no reply so hopefully you'll get somewhere.


 * Just to be triple-sure I've also taken the time to dig deeper. I found my father's old bicentennial souvenir book which talks about the entire history of Upper Macungie (including a bunch of towns that I don't think exist anymore such as Chapman's (used to be on along the Fogelsville Railway (ca. 1944)).). You can look through it again, maybe I missed something. But I don't think there is any mention of Newtown. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 22:26, 16 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep as its on the USGS map linked to earlier. (Another copy here:), though text of article might be edited to indicate its a no-longer used locality name if that's accurate. Its also on a 2013 PA DOT map here:   Its not called Newtown Rd for no reason, I am sure.  Oh, Pennsylvania.  I ran across a similar issue in writing Old Hannibal recently, I had a devil of a time figuring out where that poor elephant died, but old maps showed a location called "Centerville" in Bedford County, despite not being in use today.--Milowent • hasspoken  05:25, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached (and to give the gnis_manager@usgs.gov query time to resolve).


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 00:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)




 * delete What looks like a cluster of town buildings on the topo map turns into a farm in aerial photography. There's certainly not a town there now, and unless it all sat on the current site of the winery, I do not see how there ever could have been a town there. This really calls for better evidence than a word on a modern topo map; we're really having to deal with a group of primary sources which disagree with each other, and given the lack of any historical narrative about the name at all, I don't see how we can report that it's a place name which may or may not be valid. Mangoe (talk) 12:04, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * See my !vote above, its referenced on more than just one map. Its a deprecated place name, no doubt the origin of "Newtown Road" itself.--Milowent • hasspoken  04:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, wouldn't it make sense to move that single sentence to the township article? It's literally one sentence and it's unlikely to ever get any bigger. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 05:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. To have an article saying that a place exists, we need higher standards than just that the name appears on a map. Mapmakers occasionally make mistakes, especially if the scale of the map is big enough that they have to rely on surveys, and never actually see the territory being mapped. We should avoid perpetuating those mistakes. A redirect to Upper Macungie Township, Lehigh County, Pennsylvania would be fine if someone wants to explain in that article about this map error.  - WPGA2345 -    ☛   01:10, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.