Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Newtown Hardware House


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania). There is emerging consensus that this is an acceptable compromise between all sides of the debate. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  11:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Newtown Hardware House

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Borderline. Is the longest-running business in its town and have a bad fire which would meet WP:1E at best. I don't feel this is enough to meet WP:NOTABILITY: it is a small-town shop that has been there a while and once burnt down. Boleyn (talk) 19:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 23:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Only one comment other then the nomination.
 * Delete as clearly non-notable. A relevant single-sentence description is already in Newtown, Bucks County, Pennsylvania.  --Lockley (talk) 00:15, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eternal Shadow   Talk  15:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Newtown, Bucks County, Pennsylvania (and add the picture there). Doesn't seem to be particularly notable outside of local coverage and somewhat more regional coverage and UPenn has their financial legers and some passing book mentions. However, the business doesn't seems to have gotten much coverage outside of local publications and just being old doesn't give a free pass to notability. Best, Eddie891 Talk Work 15:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania) based upon recent expansion and my rationale below. Eddie891 Talk Work 01:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Old places like this are treasures which should be appreciated rather than disparaged. This is especially the case in the US, where the tendency is to tear property down and rebuild rather than preserving it.  I visited Tombstone last year and, while the place had a tendency to burn down too, it was wonderful to see so many places just as they were in the days of Wyatt Earp.  The place in question is perhaps not so celebrated but it's not difficult to find more coverage such as this.  Notability is a guideline which freely admits of exceptions and so there's plenty of wiggle room.  Our policies include WP:ATD; WP:IMPERFECT; WP:NOTPAPER; WP:PRESERVE and these all indicate that we should keep this page for improvement rather than officiously deleting it. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:01, 8 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The local newspaper in 2011 said it had been in business 142 years. https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/local/20110423_Newtown_would_restore_creek_to_its_original_glory.html I don't see anything other than that. How large is the place?  Did they never expand to other locations?  Are there listed in any state historical registers?    D r e a m Focus  16:56, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 151 years now. And as far as historic...Newtown's entire central business district was placed on the National Register of Historic Places. Lightburst (talk) 00:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Newtown, Bucks County, Pennsylvania, where it is already mentioned .Eddie891's comments are accurate - the only real coverage is in local & regional publications, and just being really old does not make a topic not subject to the WP:GNG. Rorshacma (talk) 20:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge to Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania). Per discussion below, this would be the better place to contain the information.  Rorshacma (talk) 03:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep In 1969 the building was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Bucks County, Pennsylvania See: Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania). The encyclopedia is better with entries like this one. Documenting a building that is 151 years old is a great practice. If I find time I will improve the references so that we WP:PRESERVE the entry. Lightburst (talk) 23:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not sure when we started keeping articles just because they are X years old. As I sit here typing, I'm sitting in a house that is over 170 years old. Does that make it notable? Absolutely not- because there isn't coverage of it. The Newtown Historic District listing is a much better claim to notability, and that might be a better redirect target, but it's just one building of 230 and 82 additional farmhouses in the district, and it only gets a passing mention in the nomination form. I'll remind people that per NBUILDING states "Buildings, including private residences and commercial developments, may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability." (partially my emphasis). While Lighburst throws out that they might find coverage establishing notability, I haven't found anything of the sort. Anyways, the great thing about redirection is that it's easy enough to recreate the article should the reason arise. I'd expect better coverage than local publications and Andrew's source—that appears to be a random person's blog—to establish notability. Best wishes, Eddie891 Talk Work 01:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I agree that the clam that it is in the National Register of Historic Places is a bit misleading, because it, as an individual building, is not. The entire district, in which it is only a single building among many, is, but that already has an article.  In fact, there are several individual buildings within the district that are also on the listing individually, but the Hardware House is not one of them.  At best, the designation of the district means that it might be a better target for the Redirect, but does not really do anything for the independent notability of this one building.  Rorshacma (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I have added quite a few sources and cleaned up the article. I would say the historic designation is reason enough to keep. Ask yourself, does it serve our readers to redirect or delete? I say no. WP:IAR Lightburst (talk) 02:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * We do tend to give some weight to the age of a place. If it has been around for a long time, then it is naturally more likely to have attracted attention, especially from antiquarians, archaeologists and historians.  But coverage may be more difficult to find because it will be in pre-Internet sources and so buried in paper archives and libraries.  We should give the benefit of the doubt in such cases per WP:ITSACASTLE. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: Please take another look. I have added multiple newspapers like Bristol Bucks County Gazette and Doylestown Intelligencer. And there are many more with exist. I am slowly adding the sources from 151 years of newspapers. Thanks! Lightburst (talk) 20:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Those added sources run into the same problems mentioned a couple times above, though, in that they are purely local newspapers. There does not seem to be anything that shows any wider notability than within the local community.  Rorshacma (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:N and GNG only call for RS, not national, regional or international RS. Lightburst (talk) 21:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Perhaps a compromise here would be a Merge to Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania) (adding a new section)? The historic district is already sorely lacking content, the hardware article isn't so incredibly long that a merge is unreasonable, and this will allow us to keep the vast majority (all?) of the content in the context of which the building has the best claim for notability. I find it hard to support keeping the building as a stand alone article, as it doesn't seem to have much (any?) significance outside of the local area. Pinging the AFD participants for their opinions: . Best wishes, Eddie891 Talk Work 23:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks I think the encyclopedia is better and our readers are served if we keep this historic building as a stand alone article. We have SIGCOV and there is much more per WP:NEXIST. Lightburst (talk) 02:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge to Newtown Historic District (Newtown, Pennsylvania). Several WP:ITSOLD buildings there, and some routine local news doesn't give it notability beyond that of the district as a whole. Reywas92Talk 00:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.