Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nicodemus Flower


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. JForget 02:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Nicodemus Flower

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Fails notability guideline at WP:MUSIC. In particular, only claim to real notability seems to be as a former member of a band (Fuzzy Logic) of equally dubious notability. No external sources appear to discuss him.

PROD removed by article author, so AfD instead. Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 17:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- NotAnonymous0 did I err?|Contribs 18:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  -- NotAnonymous0 did I err?|Contribs 18:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Notable for:
 * featuring on Statik album '[Untitled]' alongside Fyfe Dangerfield (Guillemots), Pete Doherty (Babyshambles & Libertines), Coco Sumner, and Wretch 32
 * ALSO is a member of ban RedRoots toured with Babyshambles in 2009 as part of Band RedRoots who won Xfm uploaded contest (which is confirmed through Xfm website and shows that band have received radio airplay)
 * During tour w/Babyshambles performed (separate from RedRoots) live with Drew from Babyshambles during a Pete Doherty show (see references for reviews of the show)
 * Performed REGULARLY with Pete Doherty and Babyshambles at Rhythm Factory with RedRoots
 * Not just a former member but FOUNDING member of Fuzzy Logic
 * Production credits on both Fuzzy Logic and RedRoots CDs
 * Music credits on film 'My War is Yours' which was showcased and nominated for awards at several film festivals.
 * — [ Unsigned comment added by ThornsCru (talk • contribs) 19:30, 25 April 2010.]


 * The Statik album doesn't seem to be notable enough to be listed anywhere. The RedRoots band don't yet have their own article yet, so I would recommend creating that first before creating one about one particular member.  Appearing on stage doesn't count as "notability".  As already mentioned, Fuzzy Logic are of dubious notability.  Production credits on your own albums doesn't count as notability.  Music credits on a not-really-notable film doesn't count as notability.  Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 18:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. None of the things listed above meet any of Wikipedia's WP:MUSIC guidelines for notability. They might indirectly lead to notability if any of these activities led to coverage in independent third-party sources, but I didn't find any on GNews. RedRoots might meet notability through radio airplay, but the most I can see this getting Nicodemus Flower is a redirect. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 07:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Have created a page for RedRoots and added references to Nicodemus Flower.

Wikipedia's WP:MUSIC guidelines for notability state that a musician is notable if they have been a member of two NOTABLE ensembles.

Nicodemus Flower founded the band Fuzzy Logic and currently plays in the Band Red Roots.

So then we must discuss whether RedRoots and Fuzzy Logic are notable.

RedRoots satisfy criteria 1 of notability by being the subject of an article in both print and online media
 * see http://www.uxbridgegazette.co.uk/west-london-lifestyle/whats-on-uxbridge/music-west-london/2008/06/18/en-root-for-success-113046-21090650/
 * see http://www.nme.com/news/pete-doherty/44305
 * see http://www.brumlive.com/peter-doherty-hey-tourists-red-roots-birmingham-academy-25th-march-2009/

Also they have received radio airply by DJ Steve Harris on Xfm and WON the contest satisfying criteria 9 and 11
 * see http://www.xfm.co.uk/artists/interviews/2008/xfm-uploaded-winners-to-play-wakestock

Regarding Fuzzy Logic, They were nominated for the Balcony TV which depending on whether you count that as a major music contest satisfies criteria 9.

In addition to this, they have been featured in non trivial published works both in online and print media satisfying criteria 1
 * see http://archive.oxfordmail.net/2008/7/25/254502.html
 * see http://www.urbandevelopment.co.uk/updown/features-reviews/reviews/event-reviews/review-indistry-takeover-blitz_951

Also, frontman Darwood had a track featured on Foresight Urban released which would make the album notable due to the fact it was released on Casual Records (who also released Lady Sovereign early in her career (satisfying criteria 10 - producing work for a notable compilation)
 * see itunes.apple.com/gb/album/foresight-urban/id268423909
 * see http://www.store.limewire.com/store/app/pages/album/Album/productId/8739/
 * see http://www.skiddle.com/news/all/Review-Foresight---Urban--Casual-Records/1951/

Each band needs only to meet ONE criteria yet both meet more than one. Nicodemus Flower as a member of BOTH notable bands becomes a notable musician.

ThornsCru] ([[User talk:ThornsCru|talk) 14:39, 27 April 2010 (GMT)


 * This is not the place to discuss the notability of either of the bands. The point remains that neither of these bands has garnered widespread and non-trivial coverage, nor airplay, nor any releases on any record label.  At best, these bands may just barely scrape through the notability criterion (although I highly doubt that at least one will).  It is way too early to be writing an article about one of the members.


 * By the way, your user name implies you may have a conflict of interest here; please could you disclose whether this is the case? Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 13:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I am Nicodemus Flower's manager and friend and was asked to create this page after he'd noticed That Fuzzy Logic had their own page. However, I respect the rules of this wiki and have provided references for all I have stated on both Nicodemus Flower page and RedRoots.


 * The wikipedia criteria for notability doesnt say that any amount of time is necessary to pass before a member of two ensembles become notable and by providing evidence for the notability of RedRoots and Fuzzy Logic, Nicodemus fits the criteria of a notable musician regarless of whether he himself has garnered lots of attention as a solo artist.


 * I understand that the fact that Fuzzy Logic have received no radio airplay doesn't help their cause for notability however, they do still fulfil at least one criterion for notable musicians. Also RedRoots HAVE had airplay on Xfm and fulfil other criteria and by wikipedia's own definition ARE notable musicians.


 * ThornsCru] ([[User talk:ThornsCru|talk) 15:27, 27 April 2010 (GMT)


 * My point is that whilst Flower might (tenuously) be notable by the letter of the WP guidelines, he's not notable by the spirit. Essentially, there is no need for this article, unless he becomes truly notable in his own right.  In any event, my feeling is that the Fuzzy Logic (band) article will be deleted, so this argument is a moot point!  Also, if the only reason this article exists is because the subject's manager created it (which is against WP:COI...), then that's yet more evidence that the subject isn't as notable as you'd have us believe!  Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 15:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I admit I have a professional connection with the artist and have declared so. However, the fact remains that by WP own rules on notability he is notable and though he may not be the most notable musician in the world, he satisfies enough criteria to be awarded an article on wikipedia.

I have tried my best to corroborate statements made on the page with references and remain neutral however if you still feel that there has been a conflict of interest I am willing to stop editing the page. In the meantime, as he does meet the relevant criteria, I think it would be best for the page to remain and for other wikipedians to ensure it remains neutral. I will relinquish editing duties if wikipedia feels I have acted innapropriately but the fact remains that the page has been created for a notable musician and should remain!

ThornsCru (talk • contribs) 20:25, 27 April 2010 (GMT)


 * Delete - No coverage in reliable sources, and the chain of logic to reach notability is rather tenuous at best. -- Whpq (talk) 20:59, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. neither of his two band appear notable. major coi spamming. (suggesting Red Roots is the subject of http://www.nme.com/news/pete-doherty/44305 is extremely questionable). duffbeerforme (talk) 11:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. -- Nuujinn (talk) 17:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.