Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nika Turković (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. There are no sources, questionable notability (zero to a smidgen as I see it) and there's been very little interest in improving the article over the last months & years. Krakatoa Katie  23:00, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Nika Turković
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log ) •

Notability is not temporary, but this biography has failed to get expanded or referenced since the event that made the person stand out - the Junior Eurovision song contest.

Notability (music) does not clarify whether such an event is a major music competition, so major that mere participation in it (not winning it) constitutes actual permanent notability. I personally fail to see how that would be true, but others may disagree, hence the AfD.

Note also that I am Croatian just like this person, just so I don't get any accusations I'm doing this on nationalist basis - I'm not. (Yes, it has happened before. :

(Technically this is the first AfD, but that's just because the previous deletion discussion was at Votes for deletion/Nika Turkovic many moons ago.)

--Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 18:28, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related page because of similar reasons. '' Timbouctou 20:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 18:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Croatia-related deletion discussions. Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 18:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete According to the criteria set at WP:MUSICBIO Turković may potentially meet criteria #2 (has had a single or album on any country's national music chart), #9 (has won or placed in a major music competition) #11 (has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network). However, it's virtually impossible to find anything but the trivial mention of her in major Croatian newspapers, and I can't find any mention of her 2006 album in any music chart or an industry award such as Porin. Her website was last updated in September 2009 and, apart from appearing as guest performer at several local jazz festivals, it seems her only solo public performance in Croatia was an appearance in a demo band show aired in February 2009 on HRT (which indirectly means that the national television sees her as a demo artist). Whether the Junior Eurovision is a "major event" I have no idea (it certainly isn't considered as such in Croatia) but the apparent lack of coverage is a clear indication of insufficient notability. Furthermore, since WP:NALBUMS states that the notability of albums depends on the notability of recording artists, her album should be included in this AfD. '' Timbouctou 20:13, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- -- Cirt (talk) 22:02, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

It is poor judgement to dismiss such a gifted 15-years old, with a career of nine years which is only starting. Nika Turković has been known, admired and beloved in Croatia ever since she appeared on television at age 6,  singing in Italian while starting to learn writing at school. She has made regular appearances in public since then. There is no reason why her foreign admirers should be deprived of an entry in English about her, even if they have learned Croatian. There is no talk of deleting her entry in the Czech, Croatian, Dutch, Sabmi (!), Serb, Swedish and Turkish versions, and I have added one in French. The logic of the internet is not that capacity is limited, but on the contrary that it is unbounded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.224.135.150 (talk) 03:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The logic and policy of Wikipedia is that article content needs to be verifiable and the topics notable. This is accomplished by quoting articles from reliable sources where someone makes non-trivial mentions of the article topic. For example, you link videos from Turbo Limach Show and Studio 10, broadcast by Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT). That helps verify the person's existence and behavior, but does that mean that HRT as such vouches for the person's notability? Especially given that they have a vested interest in promoting a Junior Eurovision contestant simply because they're part of the whole show? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 14:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Turbo Limach Show was a children's entertainment program aired on HRT which featured a large number of children performers and appearance in it alone does not satisfy the criteria set at WP:GNG. A simple Google search for "Nika Turković" at websites of Jutarnji list, Večernji list (the two most-read dailies in Croatia) yields zero results, while a search of Novi list and Vjesnik dailies yields a handful of results which give her only a passing mention back in 2004 as they are really about the Junior Eurovision contest and the Croatian qualifiers for it (which is not really that surprising since even the most creative journalist would struggle to write anything meaningful about a random 9 year old girl). While it is true that she later released an album at the age of 11 in 2006, I can't find a shred of evidence that the album was registered anywhere by the local media or that it received any airplay. She may be a talented artist with a struggling career, but this is not evidenced by her official website and blog (which do not mention any concert performance by her and haven't been updated at all in little over a year) or local media outlets. IMO she also fails WP:ONEEVENT criteria for a standalone article as her only claim to fame comes from coming in third at the 2004 Junior Eurovision, fitting the description of an "individual who had a minor role in a minor event". At best, the article should be turned into a redirect pointing to the the 2004 contest. Also, take a look at the "Wikipedias in other languages" section in the WP:AADD article which states that "Other Wikipedias may have different inclusion criteria from the English Wikipedia. Other versions of Wikipedia are not reliable sources. Many articles in other Wikipedias are based on translations of English Wikipedia articles." '' Timbouctou 16:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * weak keep. This young lady has been on TV singing since age 6. This is notable. She sings duets with such greats as Oliver Dragojevic and Toni Cetinski. How many people can we say that about? "delete" arguments above that in part state "Especially given that they have a vested interest in promoting a Junior Eurovision contestant simply because they're part of the whole show" can be said of many TV stations all over the world, just the same as for many newspapers all over the world. That is not a valid argument. By that logic, the TV station that airs the Oscars (part of the whole show) promotes the singers that perform, so that is not notable. This is my genuine opinion, I am not purposly voting with or against any editor I may have disagreed with in the past. Thanks.Turqoise 127  00:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * JFTR, that particular slope is not really as slippery as you say - the problem is that it's hard to find any other media other than a particular one promoting the subject. It's not invalid to consider this situation at least mildly suspicious, because otherwise there would be a converse slippery slope with all sorts of topics advocated by various other kinds of fringe media outlets. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 00:47, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * We are talking about HRT, the national TV network, the only one up until the last decade or so. There are only like, what, three other TV stations? Common. It is like saying the NBC is advocating Jay Leno because they air him, so that is not a notability indication. I just don't see it, sorry.Turqoise 127  00:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Two other national, but a few dozen regional and local. Plus all other non-TV media. Your example is actually exactly right - if Jay Leno only had NBC talk about him over a period of his entire career, and everyone else practically ignored him except for one single event, then yes, NBC's airing alone would not be an instant proof of notability for him. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 18:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.