Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nikoloz Phirtskhalava


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. It would be best to gather consensus on whether Umaglesi Liga is fully professional, as it was the main cause for concern. \ Backslash Forwardslash / (talk) 23:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Nikoloz Phirtskhalava

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Appears to fail WP:ATHLETE as there's no evidence that the Georgian league is pro Spiderone (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Spiderone (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence he has played in a fully-pro league, so fails WP:ATHLETE. Also fails WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 16:22, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 04:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions.  -- Cyber cobra  (talk) 04:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The Umaglesi Liga is most assuredly professional. Lack of interest by English speaking Wikipedia editors but needs clean up.Cptnono (talk) 05:34, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If it can't be proved then we can't assume that it's true. Spiderone (talk) 08:05, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the above wikilinked league and the FC Dinamo Tbilisi article. If you can honestly argue that the players do not play as professionals for a professional team in a professional league we can discuss it further.Cptnono (talk) 08:50, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Umaglesi Liga is not listed here and the Dinamo Tbilisi article says nothing about being professional Spiderone (talk) 08:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good thing this discussion came up then. Per Umaglesi Liga (the top flight in Georgia): "it has been organized by the Professional Football League of Georgia and Georgian Football Federation". So what is not professional about it? The guys are paid profesionals in the sport and Georgian soccer has some level of notability per UEFA and FIFA. Fix the article but it meets notability requirements. Cptnono (talk) 09:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't see a reliable source for the Umaglesi Liga being professional other than an unsourced line on a Wikipedia page. Spiderone (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete never played in a fully professional level, therefore he is a non-notable subject. Really nothing else to say. --Angelo (talk) 07:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - plays for the top team in Georgia, and if Umaglesi Liga is professional, then it's a no-brainer. 8lgm (talk) 09:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment There's no evidence that it's professional. I don't understand how this article is of any benefit to Wikipedia. Spiderone (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is evidence that it is professional. Make your argument based on it not being any benift to Wikipeida instead if that is your primary concern. The player meets WP:ATHLETE requirments but may not meet signifigant coverage requirments.Cptnono (talk) 12:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence. Your only proof is an unsourced statement on the Umaglesi Liga page. Not good enough. Spiderone (talk) 12:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Use more italics if it makes you happy. the subject matter meets inclusion and you are simply unhappy about a poor article. Ask the creator to move it into a subpage for clean up but don't diminish notability that is clearly met through WP:ATHLETE. It is a professional player in a professional league. It is also a poor article and someone should fix it before being acceptable.12:30, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please read this before you embarrass yourself again Spiderone (talk) 12:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, you've just quoted an essay that, assuming Dinamo Tblisi are a fully professional side, would mean this player passes as he played against Panathinaikos in the Champions league qualifyers. Re embarrassment - what goes around comes around springs to mind. 8lgm (talk) 12:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Done: "All leagues whose members are eligible for national cups are assumed notable. All leagues that are a country's highest level are assumed notable. All other leagues are assumed non-notable unless they can be shown to meet broader". If the guy is realy a roofer instead of a footballer you might have a point but in all reality primary sources and Wikipeida guidelines say it is notable. Instead of trying to "win" you should be focused on improving content that has already been judged acceptable. Don't be a jerk about it and just fix it.Cptnono (talk) 12:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

No, not at all. It is the top flight of the country's league and the guy isn't a roofer. He is a footballer. He is notable. If we focus on improving the article instead of complaining about its inclusion it could go much better. By the way, 8lgm, I love the term "oh dear" as a nonEnglishman. It is not said that often in the States and when it is you know something has gone terribly wrong. I'll try to find some sources on this guy that the original creator of the article should have found already. Maybe it will be of some use.Cptnono (talk) 12:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not done- You are all looking at league notability. This is a player so you should look at player notability. Here is the quote:"Have played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure. This must be supported by evidence from a reliable source on a club by club basis for teams playing in leagues that are not recognised as being fully professional" and since we can't be sure the Umaglesi Liga is professional then we can't be sure this player is notable. You see? Spiderone (talk) 12:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spiderone - you're misreading the essay. If footyn had been adopted, all that would have mattered would be that the CLUB would be fully professional (not the league) and as Tbilisi are the top team in Georgia they easily pass the next bit re playing at the national lavel of the league structure. Please do not come on here accusing people of being 'embarrassing' when you clearly do not understand what you are talking about yourself. 8lgm (talk) 12:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's not get into the "embarrassing" discussion. It is a great laugh but doesn't fix anything. Good times and now it is time to fix some stubs. : )  Cptnono (talk) 13:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I wanted to follow-up. The official website calls the league professional. I'm still poking around for English sources on the player since google translate doesn't do Georgian to English.Cptnono (talk) 03:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Follow-up, I am opening discussion on the player winning team honours with Tbilisi when they won the league, Georgian Cup, and Georgian Super Cup here.Cptnono (talk) 04:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.