Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/No. (7) Basic Education Middle School, Mandalay


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Consensus is to delete or redirect, but given the lack of agreement on any redirect target, I am just deleting it. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 09:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

No. (7) Basic Education Middle School, Mandalay

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No sources, no significant coverage found via Google, content is unverifiable. I couldn't even find reliable sources verifying the school's existence (though there are sufficiently many unreliable sources to convince me it's not a hoax). Since it's not a high school, it shouldn't fall under the automatic notability of high schools. WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES suggests redirecting to the "lowest level locality", which in this case would presumably be Chanayethazan Township, but the target article contains no relevant information and itself doesn't show significant coverage in reliable sources. Thus I don't think a redirect would be helpful. Huon (talk) 17:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete: I did some research myself, and all I could really find was an old facebook event, an inactive Yahoo Group, and what appears to be a dead website link for the school itself. I personally believe the school "may have" existed at one time, however I was unable to find any solid evidence or coverage to verify that this was indeed the case.  Stubbleboy 18:20, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect - Not notable enough (or at all) for its own page. Would recommend a redirect to Education in Burma.--FoolMeOnce2Times (talk) 18:25, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: The school does exist. Not many internet sources don't mean that the school doesn't exist. The only reason you guys could find sources online is that Myanmar just opened internet access recently. Not many news media or publication about Myanmar are online. To be honest, I am alumni of the school and I am studying abroad now. Here is the facebook page of the school. https://www.facebook.com/bems7mandalay?ref=ts&fref=ts There is a closed facebook group also. All of them are managed by school alumni. As you can see in the event flow of the school facebook page, they recently held Paying Homage Ceremony on 23.12.2012. You could also check the photos posted on the facebook page. Photos of teachers, students, school buildings, ceremony, paying homage events, etc. Hope these photos and facebook flow convince you that it is a real school. If you have any questions about sources, let me know. I will pass the message to the facebook group/page admin. Thanks. Petermdy001 (talk) 03:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Facebook and other Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources for verification. Furthermore, because something exists does not mean it is notable. Mkdw talk 07:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete. None of the above statements demonstrates how the school satisfies the minimum criteria for notability. The question is not whether the institution exists, but whether it is notable by Wikipedia standards. In 2013, you can find a Facebook page or group for just about everyone or everything, so the mere existence of such a page or group is not enough. Oppose a redirect – Education in Burma is too general a target.  Super Mario  Man  09:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:38, 12 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - Keep in mind that sources about this school may be difficult to find due to WP:SYSTEMICBIAS. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete or Redirect High Schools are notable per longstanding precedent, middle schools and lower virtually never are. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  05:05, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Mandalay, which is clearly the correct place to redirect to, as the previous redirect locations are way too generic. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 06:15, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete I hesitate to redirect to Mandalay only because mention in the article would not be suitable and no sub-article exists. When a sub-article is made it can be made into a redirect. Delete under WP:OUTCOMES. Mkdw talk 07:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep Whether or not the school once existed or currently exists (present or past tense) is not relevant. Being able to find information on the school has a two-fold hindrance each contained in WP:SYSTEMICBIAS. Because of non-native English used and sketchy Internet access in Mandalay, the article looks incomplete. The article could be cleaned up with help form a native English speaking editor since this is in an English speaking section of Wikipedia. The article does not cite references within the text, doing so would help support the validity of the article. For example, there must be a newspaper or magazine article somewhere that supports the phrase "For a long time this place is the Kaung Hua Chinese Temple. But at the 1st April of 1965, the government make public place and open as a government middle school naming No (7), Basic Education Middle School, Mandalay {B.E.MS (7), Mandalay}." Schools fall under the WP:NCORP policy when determining GNG. The policy states: "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources." When sources are listed, they may well be in a non-English speaking newspaper or magazine and that needs to be accepted in order to avoid systemic bias WP:SYSTEMICBIAS and being an exclusionist. Wordsword1 (talk) 14:12, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a middle school, and in the absence of any obvious sources, we can't have an article. If someone comes up with sources in a foreign language, that are reliable, then we might be able to keep it. As it stands, no. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 16:18, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The sentence structure used actually seems to be saying that No. 7 is a school that runs from first grade to ninth grade (from primary through middle school, and actually what would be the beginning of high school in the US). So it is not just a middle school.
 * I have been trying to find out more about the education system in Myanmar. I found some general information in The Straits Times, an English language paper covering Myanmar and Singapore. It seems that University is good in Mandalay; however, years of brutal dictatorship crushed preparatory education. I have been unable to find out at what grade one graduates in Myanmar (that is are there another 3 years after grade 9 as n the US. All of that information would be helpful in the article.
 * An article dated March 6, 2013 indicated that the new government is trying to serve the people more, so the military was given "US$100 million less than the previous year but (it is) still likely to dwarf the money available for the crumbling education and health care systems in the nation of 60 million people." So there is potential of notability to a school being funded by the Myanmar government, but the article needs more information to achieve that level.
 * What it's equivalent to in the US is utterly, utterly irrelevant. The ref you've provided has precisely nothing to do with this school, but is about education in Myanmar, so is useless. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 08:10, 13 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect per longstanding consensus for run-of-the-mill elementary schools. It's pretty embarrassing to have "principal" misspelled in an education-related article, by the way, I'm leaving it as an illustration of how vapid this article (inevitably) is. (Of course, it will be corrected anyway five seconds after I mention this...) Carrite (talk) 20:15, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Just a thought Carrite: The originator of the article is apparently a non-Native English speaker or writer; so, we/you need to give him some slack. Go ahead and edit the language errors to clean up the article when you have time. That is no problem. I think the originator would probably appreciate your effort. Wordsword1 (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe that's snarky, sure, but if you're gonna be doing education articles on English WP, basic spelling competence is required. Carrite (talk) 01:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I would also like to point out that the article title has several problems with it and that a redirect would be a good nomination for a very unlikely search title considering the brackets and punctuation, rather than "Basic Education Middle School, Mandalay". Mkdw talk 23:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.