Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noh-Varr


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, after extended time for discussion and revision of the article as originally nominated. bd2412 T 21:15, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Noh-Varr

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Another character in a comic without any secondary sourcing or other indication of notability per GNG (existence does not equal notability). There is one single mention of him being, like, "sexy" on a 2013 list written up by ComicsAlliance, which does not strike me as a particularly important award, ranking, or organization. Drmies (talk) 18:06, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep based on the sources in the article, but failing that merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: N. BOZ (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge. Ranked #2 on the list of the "50 Sexiest Male Characters in Comics" by a niche website is the very definition of grasping for straws. Fancruft. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:55, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - The current reception is fluff. It needs some actual references to establish notability. TTN (talk) 11:16, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe keep based on this article in The New York Times. For once I found something on a comic character of value. I would appreciate comments from User:TTN, User:BOZ, User:Piotrus, User:Drmies4meter4 (talk) 19:37, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't have an NYT account so I can't see the full piece, but from what I could see before the filter blocked me from seeing the rest, it looks like that could easily be a key step in the right direction. BOZ (talk) 20:24, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see how one newspaper article, with what is likely just a brief mention, would change things here. Drmies (talk) 21:03, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I only got a partial view, but there is a section of the article devoted to the character (Noh-Varr is the bolded and larger text title of that section). This is a text quote from what I could see, "Noh-Varr joined the Avengers as Captain Marvel and later became known as the Protector. As a space-faring Kree, the triple-jointed Nor-Varr has a fluid view of sexuality. “We consider these things carefully,” he once told his Young Avengers teammates. “I was aboard an exploratory vessel, after all. Exploratory does have multiple meanings. The Kree are efficient like that.” There is text after that but it's blocked from my view. It looks like the article is about the various versions of Captain Marvel. This isn't my area. I only get into Marvel at the movies. I leave it to you all to decide where this content is best housed at wikipedia.4meter4 (talk) 22:05, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The trick with some press filters is to stop the page from loading fully (click the x button in the browser, worked for me here, Chrome, no special plugins). In either way, all this has is a single paragraph that goes as follows: (cut, I didn't realize it was already quoted above). I don't see anything more later in the article, it has just one more section about another superhero. I am afraid this doesn't go much beyond the usual in-universe character biography peppered with few quotes. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:29, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This is the only content you missed from what you quoted. It comes directly before the content you saw: "[Image] [Caption:] It took Nor-Varr nine years to temporarily graduate from Marvel Boy to Captain Marvel. Credit Marvel Entertainment This alien hero crash-landed on Earth in 2000 and quickly found himself at odds with Doctor Midas, who was obsessed with the energy that gave the Fantastic Four their powers, and Hexus, a corporation that became sentient (and evil)."
 * Technically, the source doesn't meet the WP:GNG criteria to determine notability. It is significant, reliable, and independent, but I think it comes in as a Primary source, not Secondary, since it just summarizes who he is and what happened in the comics.  That said, GNG is a guideline and not a rule, and on a personal level I still feel that it is a worthy source to establish notability when talking fiction since by definition popular culture is only notable if people are talking about it, and the New York Times talking about a topic carries significant weight. Even if people discount it as a source to determine notability strictly adhering to WP:GNG, adding it as a reference to applicable content would go a long way in still demonstrating that significant coverage from a major, reliable outlet exists. -2pou (talk) 08:48, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Note: Late add, and this one closes soon.  2pou (talk) 08:48, 2 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. Wait a second here... What do you mean "(existence does not equal notability)"?  That is in direct contradiction to the Wikipedia Notability test. Just two sections below WP:GNG, WP:ARTN leads with "Article content does not determine notability" and goes on to state, "if the source material exists, even very poor writing and referencing within a Wikipedia article will not decrease the subject's notability."  In essence, this is saying, especially in this case (as I will point out next), the article may just need improvement, not deletion. I get it, and I'm in agreement that there is a lot of bad articles that shouldn't exist, but this one... Are people doing due diligence WP:BEFORE nominating or suggesting deletion?  I don't know anything about this character, but the AfD autogenerated template provides all those Google search parameters, and this article title is unambiguous.  I simply clicked on the "Scholar" search to "Find sources", and the first three attributable options (throw out the HTML link) are all attributable to authors, reliable publications, provide analysis as secondary sources, and have significant coverage of Noh-Varr. (,,  - and they're all available (or at least the content in question) for free). Next a simple search for "Marvel Boy CBR" can get you to the tag page where these three articles can be found: CBR1, CBR2, CBR3.  All three provide great breakdowns, whether on story or art.  Art analysis is valid given the medium of the character. Finally, I don't understand the attacks on the existing secondary sources... No, a sexiest character list is not exactly intellectually deep material, but it is still coverage that meets GNG as it is significant (direct), secondary, reliable, and independent.  Knocking it as niche is unjustified--clicking the source's wikilink shows that the source was an Eisner Award winner for Best Comics-Related Periodical/Journalism.  George Clooney has a mention of his sexiest man award on his article...  Alone, does that make something notable, no, but there is a quoted review as well, also coming from an Eisner Award winner for the same journalism category.  Yes, it's a little clunky since the comment is about a series, and not the character, but the series in question is directly attributable to the character, which comes back to what I said before: The article needs improvement, not deletion. (I just wasted too much time on this character I've never read a story on...) -2pou (talk) 08:48, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * 2pou, the article was just expanded significantly. BOZ (talk) 03:16, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: This can probably do with some more discussion.
 * Redirect to List of Marvel Comics characters: N. Fails WP:SIGCOV, and no real world notability. Even the "Sexiest" listing is a trivial listing. Onel 5969  TT me 11:36, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per 2pou. Freeknowledgecreator (talk) 09:38, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge with Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics) - Just as notable as most other comic book character articles. Just because whoever wrote it didn't bother with sourcing does not mean they do not exist.  Dark Knight  2149  20:47, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:07, 10 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.