Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nonnie berard


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. PhilKnight (talk) 19:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Nonnie berard

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Sigh. I think that its pretty clear that this person is non-notable, but the author of the article feels really strongly that she is, and she maybe doesn't quite meet the criteria for speedy deletion -- she was Crawfish Queen, whatever the heck that is -- so lets go through the process. Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC) Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm from Louisiana so I'll explain. Crawfish Queen is a beauty Queen title in Louisiana. One goes though numerous beauty pageants around the state and must come out in first place for up to 20. Then a semi final will began where the finalist all faced against each other in a pageant. It is the highest beauty queen title in Louisiana next to Miss Louisiana. Nonnie is also seen as Louisana's idol, many if not all of the girls residing in Louisiana look up to her as their idol. She's even gained the attention of Rich Music Inc. http://richmusicinc.com/ And she's going to star in a feature film. I think this is more then some other people on here, so I see nothing wrong with the page.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 03:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Also she is going to be performing on tour at the Cajundome and has performed at Independence stadium and will be heading to New Orleans Arena. I think all these things placed together makes her notble, because I've seen others with much less.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Seems non-notable to me. This is the closest I could find to reliable sourcing, and it's not actual coverage of Nonnie but of the event at issue. The anon above appears to be arguing that Nonnie might be more notable in the future, so perhaps this article can be re-created if the feature film is a great success, or if Rich Music Inc. makes her famous, or what have you. However, in the interim, GNews returns nothing, and GHits gives me blog postings, a Myspace page, and the aforementioned trivial coverage. Ergo, non-notable. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  04:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. Won a non-notable award (see below), no reliable sources used in the article, Google News returns nothing. Perhaps after the aforementioned tour? --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 04:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete none of the article sources mention her, nothing on Ghits to support notability and per Ginsengbomb.—Sandahl  (♀)  04:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep She's more notable then some others pages I've seen on here. Maybe her agency should be brought in? Also she does have online news articles like this one and more http://www.pxionline.com/news/Media+and+Education/21988 reported 21 hours ago--PurpleLacyLue 04:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PurpleLacyLue (talk • contribs)
 * Comment You should read our policy on reliable sourcing. That misses by a wide margin, and it is certainly not an "online news article." It's a submission from her talent agency, AVA Talent, to "PXI Online," apparently (as far as I can tell) an online technology publication that allows people to submit their own news. I'm not sure why someone submitted something about Nonnie's "headling" (sic) tour to a tech publication with coverage of topics like Evaluating WiMax signal quality and "3U PXI Packs a Punch," but... well, there it is. For anyone too lazy to click the link, the entirety of the "online news article" is as follows: "Nonnie Berard's headling [SIC] tour. Nonnie Berard, famous Louisiana singer is set to embark on her statewide tour though [SIC] Louisiana." That's literally it. And then it's back to covering technology. Hmmmm... ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  05:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. Completely unreferenced wp:BLP. No reliable Google search results. No gNews hits at all. The "news article" referenced by PurpleLacyLue is a one sentence press release, managing to be both trivial and unreliable. Her single gets no Google hits. Forthcoming movie gets no hits either. Delete now, recreate it when Miss Berard's notability can be established. » scoops “ 5x5  „ 05:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I did find something through Google Image that suggests she was the winner of a crawfish eating competition. -- WikHead (talk) 06:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Certainly a lot of WP:CRYSTAL balling and what-ifs going on there, but absolutely nothing that suggests notability, even if the existing content was well referenced. It completely fails all points of WP:MUSICBIO, and the acting stuff is hardly worth a mention 'til it actually happens. -- WikHead (talk) 06:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I guess the page should just be recreated in a few weeks. I'm sure they'll be much more on her once the tour starts. Although, isn't one of the points, having a large following? She does meet that one, but I suppose it's not enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.69.203.49 (talk) 11:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete per Herostratus, Ginsengbomb, Scoops and WikHead. I also can't find anything that indicates that the Breaux Bridge contest is anything but a local contest, especially since the contestants must live in the school district. Indeed, the Ville Platte Gazette specifically lists it as a "local festival" title, not a state-wide title, see this link.  She has a total 26 GHits, 0 GNews hits and only 17 GImage hits.  Non-notable local pagent winner. (GregJackP (talk) 14:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC))
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Let me say this, I am from Shreveport, Louisiana, and the competition was held here in Independence Stadium, so unless the title went from local to statewide in the past 2 years, GregJackP and Ville Platte Gazette (Whatever and wherever that is) are incorrect. Also I am the head of her fan club and I don't think a "local" anything would have 100s of fans across the state, just take a look on Twitter and you can easily find at least 75 fan sites for her. Next, I had no idea that she was this un publicized on the internet news, this is most likely because she can't release her songs on the internet or out of state yet, due to Agency restrictions. Let me suggest an idea we all can be happy with. Put a verifiability question tag on the page and give it a 30 day wavier, that will be enough time for her tour to start and get much more news head lines. and I will see to it that all of her fans start publicizing her outside of just fan sites.--PurpleLacyLue 23:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PurpleLacyLue (talk • contribs)
 * Comment - First, personal knowledge is not used by Wikipedia, second, if it is not notable now, you can re-introduce if and when she does become notable. If it is not notable now, it needs to be deleted now.  GregJackP (talk) 23:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Much as I would like to see a Crawfish Queen in Wikipedia, Ms. Berard doesn't meet the notability standards of WP:BIO at this point in her career.  NawlinWiki (talk) 23:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment So after the tour sets and she gets at least one headline, the page can be recreated? Or do I wait until the filming for her movie starts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PurpleLacyLue (talk • contribs) 23:36, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Neither the tour nor the filming confer notability in and of themselves. Reliable, verifiable coverage in secondary sources does. If she gets a few headlines (technically, one headline article in a reliable publication is insufficient, "multiple" is required) then sure, re-create the article. There are never any guarantees, but if a subject is well-covered in reliable sources the odds of an article on that subject being deleted are very slim. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡ  bomb  03:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete per Herostratus, also decided to be pedantic and gather a few more sources to plug any uncertainties about this.
 * I tried to find some additional info to allow any claims notability to be properly evaluated. The only verifiable claim made by the article is about her title as the 2008 Crawfish Queen, though all sources cite it as a local event rather than one of statewide importance, most importantly, the official Breaux Bridge Crawfish Festival website, which specifies that the pageant is exclusive to the Breaux Bridge High School District area.
 * The author also seems to be willfully attempting to misrepresent the importance of the awarded title. There are many such titles at this level, the Crawfish Queen being only one of almost 100 distinct local festival queens of the Louisiana Association of Fairs and Festivals (LAFF), that is, there is at most one unique queen chosen by each participating festival. From this pool of festival queens, a Queen of Queens is chosen. This is the highest pageant-related honor bestowed by the LAFF. Concerning her duration of her reign, the article doesn't specify, though its disputed primary source states that she still holds the title to this day, when she in fact only possessed the title for 2008, and her throne has since been usurped by Tiffany Paige Dore. LAFF Pageants are not in any way related to Miss Louisiana or Miss Louisiana USA. Miss Louisiana candidates are drawn from the winners of a different set of pageants and Miss Louisiana USA pageants do not have a preliminary set of pageants in order to qualify. Therefore, to state that the Crawfish Queen is the highest ranking title after Miss Louisiana is obviously far from correct.


 * As far as the personal account of attending the competition, sources say that the Crawfish Queen pageant was held at a Hilton Hotel and Towers in Lafayette, LA -- not the (more notable?) Independence Stadium of Shreveport, LA.


 * While it is technically possibly to set a "national record" for something exclusive to your hometown, the terminology is intentionally misleading. Also, no sources describe her age as unusual in any way for the competition. If considering what other unspecified records could have been broken with respect to other pageants, Logan Travis won Miss Louisiana Teen USA in 2007 at 15, and nationally, Jolene Fulkner won Miss California Teen USA in 1991 at 14.


 * Regarding the claim to notability based on Twitter friend count, some suggest that ratio of followers to those followed may be a better measure of notability. By this measure, her low ratio (0.45:1) indicates that, not even by Twitter standards, is she likely to be considered notable (not that the friend list is notably large in absolute terms either). Then again, the interpretation of these results is fairly arbitrary, and is not a suitable way to make a claim of notability in the first place.


 * And on top of every thing else, it seems pretty likely that some sockpuppetting is going on here... RamenFueled (talk) 10:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong delete this WP:UPANDCOMING starlet with the hyperactive fan club and COI editor(s). -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - in addition to the arguments above, allow me to add that the article's discussion page notes that articles on Ms. Berard have already been speedy-deleted twice in the very recent past. New articles have popped up with slightly different capitalization in the titles - a common trick by those who can't take a hint. Also, the admission from Ms. Berard that her agency created the WP article(s) should probably be the over-riding factoid in this discussion. See WP:NOTMYSPACE. D OOMSDAYER 520  (Talk|Contribs) 03:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Firstly, Nonnie could have easily thought it was her agency, most people think that wikipedia can only be edited by big name people. Secondly, [WP:NOTMYSPACE]] has no reference here. The page isn't set up like a social network page. It is just informative information. Lastly, the pages were speedily deleted without cause. I have seen at least a handful of BIO on here with people that have done far less amazing things then Nonnie. P.S I don't like Orange Mike calling me and the rest of the Nonnie fans hyperactive.--PurpleLacyLue 03:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PurpleLacyLue (talk • contribs)
 * Please see wp:otherstuffexists. If you find biographies of people with less notability than Miss Berard, nominate them for deletion. Also, things very rarely get deleted without cause, especially not repeatedly. That you don't like the reason does not render it invalid, especially when you have a clear conflict of interest. » scoops “ 5x5  „ 03:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment Alright, since this is going nowhere, I'm going to start a petition here to get the page to stay. Hopefully I'll be able to get Governor Bobby Jindal to sign it in the end. --174.69.203.49 (talk) 23:25, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Please don't. For one thing, we ignore petitions here, even if they're signed by Barack Obama. For another, if the subject does not meet our notability guidelines, we don't keep the article. Finally, if indeed Ms. Berard doesn't meet our notability guidelines, I doubt that your petition will be getting a lot of legit signatures. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 03:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment For some reason I highly doubt you guys have the power to override the President. That's what I've been trying to get across this whole time. She should meet notability standards. She's a Louisiana idol. So many young girls look up to her and see her as a role model across the state. But that doesn't account for notability by your standards. If can get at least half of her fans around the state along with Governor Jindal to sign, I doubt we'll be having anymore problems with keeping the page.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 04:06, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Popularity does not equal notability. Please read wp:Notability: "A topic [...] has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." This is not rocket surgery. » scoops “ 5x5  „ 04:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I was referring to the statement about the amount of petition signatures, that could be acquired.--174.69.203.49 (talk) 04:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * So was I. The number of signatures you can or cannot get is irrelevant. A petition will not make Miss Berard pass our notability standard. Significant, reliable, independent coverage will. » scoops “ 5x5  „ 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You wrote that you doubt that we have the authority to override the president. Actually, we do. Wikipedia is run by a private non-profit corporation, and as such, as long as the site abides by US laws, no one, not even the President, can tell us what to do. Things would be different if Wikipedia were a government site, but it's not. As an aside, I doubt that you'll be able to get Governor Jindal involved if Berard just doesn't meet our notability guidelines. Bottom line, if you want the article kept, there's one way and one way only to do it, and that's to show us that Berard meets at least one of the notability guidelies laid out either at WP:GNG or WP:MUSIC. Failing that, there's quite simply nothing you can do to get the article kept. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 11:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment It doesn't really add to the debate, but this is an amusing development with respect to my previous comment regarding notability and Twitter: Nonnie's ratio on Twitter over (a short span of) time. RamenFueled (talk) 04:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment It's amusing how you misunderstood what I meant about fan twitters. I was talking about Twitters that are dedicated to her, not the amount of people that follow her. Exs. http://twitter.com/NonnieRocks01, http://twitter.com/VerifyNonnie , http://twitter.com/Nonnieamazing :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.69.203.49 (talk) 04:46, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - a Twitter account to "Verify" Nonnie? Twitter is not a verifiable or reliable source, but I'm impressed with the effort you are giving to try and keep the article. GregJackP (talk) 13:40, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete This has been an educational exercise, to be sure. I vote to delete, per the patiently argued reasons already given. The subject is non-notable, though clearly much-beloved in her community. Rudybowwow (talk) 07:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC. --Cameron Scott (talk) 09:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete -fails WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC and we couldn't care less about any petitions. Toddst1 (talk) 19:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.