Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/North Dakota State Bison baseball


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. The NCAA is surely a reliable and authoritative source on the question of whether ND State is a Division I or Division II school, and it says Division II. I'll do a temp undelete if someone wants to merge, but there isn't much there. Mackensen (talk) 22:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

North Dakota State Bison baseball
College baseball from a Division II program, fails WP:N. Merge somewhere or Delete Jaranda wat's sup 22:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of baseball-related deletions.   —Truest blue 16:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Read the article closer, this is a Division I program. --Matthew UND (talk) 23:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok from a minor Division I confrence, unless sources can be provided for why this baseball program is notable other than playing college sports my vote is merge or delete. Jaranda wat's sup 23:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep MatthewUND is completely right here! Politics rule 23:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All he did was correct me and a keep without an explaination, AFD isn't a vote. Jaranda wat's sup 23:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep He did give an explanation, It's Divison I, Getting a little picky are we? If stuff like this should be deleted then some of these pidly defunt sports leagues and teams that have a page on here should be deleted too.  Leopold Samsonite 23:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:NPA Jaranda wat's sup 00:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and Merge. May be a DI program, but that in and of itself isn't notable, as there are over 300 DI programs and each school has an average of 6 mens and 6 womens sports. Perhaps if they had won a national championship they would be notable. Merge into North Dakota State Bison. Smashville 00:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete and Merge Minor division 1 baseball school... the page really has little information on it that couldn't be mentioned on the main page. Spanneraol 00:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Redirect for now to North Dakota State.  I have no doubt that their baseball coverage is covered by reliable sources, but there's not enough content in the article to let it stay in the current form Corpx 00:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Notable college program. HERE are quite a number of sources that discuss the subject. This more than satisfies WP:N as "Significant coverage" and "Reliable" sources. Kinston eagle 01:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They are all trivial coverage, like team A is playing North Dakota State today or game recaps Jaranda wat's sup 01:17, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They are all? You've read all 396 articles? Kinston eagle 01:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I read the NDSU Baseball Media guide from their website. If any source was going to establish notability, this one would. It didn't. Other than the fact that all-time, the school is 162 games below .500, they have only won 38 games in 3 years of DI. Smashville 15:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I just went to several in random pages, some of them doesn't even talk about the baseball program there, and non of them tells why this is notable Jaranda wat's sup 01:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment One has to wonder about the motivation behind nominating just the baseball article while ignoring the men's basketball, women's basketball, football, soccer, softball, volleyball, and wrestling articles from the same school. This seems to be one more example of Project Baseball's elitest prejudice against all baseball articles that aren't directly related to the majors. Baseball does exist outside of major league ballparks and wikipedia should reflect that. I find the pointed suppression and exclusionary tactics to be very disturbing. Kinston eagle 01:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not prejustice, WP:AGF, I nominated several college football and several North Dakota high school articles as well at the same day. This article was mentioned on the proposal of the new sports guidelines, and I placed a AFD tag on it. If this article gets redirected, I'm going to redirect the other articles as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaranda (talk • contribs) 01:28, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Are we deleting based on proposed guidelines now? Where are these proposed guidelines you speak of? Do you have a link? Kinston eagle 01:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe he is referring to the proposed guideline that he is writing here on a user subpage of his. He appears to be the only major editor of the proposal. --Matthew UND (talk) 01:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea that, I asked all the sports wikiprojects to contribute though and many did or are actively discussing in their talk pages. Jaranda wat's sup 01:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I applaud your efforts on trying to get better guidelines established, especially for baseball, but the proposed guidelines you speak of concerned the notability of athletes (now termed "sportspersons" I guess to include owners, managers, etc...). It does not address the notability of teams or college programs at all. Just because most of the players would be NN does not mean that the team would be NN. For example, Rookie League teams are considered notable while most of the members of those teams would not be. The articles to establish notability are out there. Baseball America, for example, routinely covers college baseball, and I'm sure that there have been times when they have had an article or two exclusively on NDS. And I'm sure that a statewide newspaper has had to have written articles on the program. If a dedicated individual in ND close to the sources were to do the research, I'm sure those references would be added. The problem is across the board on baseball pages of players and teams alike. There are very few editors who bother to add verifiable third party sources. Would you propose that we delete two-thirds of the baseball articles until sources can be brought up to snuff? Or, would it make more sense to let them stand and assume that at some point someone will source the articles? Kinston eagle 12:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think he's bored and is trying to cause a fight, other colleges have there separate pages for separate sport, He has several ND sports articles up for deletion. Wikipidedia has it's rules and used to be a fun place to work on, now it seems like certain people are getting a little too picky.  Leopold Samsonite 04:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)Leopold Samsonite
 * Other schools have pages for individual sports, but they contain much more than a table of head coaches. Corpx 04:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Material can and will be added. You have to start somewhere.  --NDState 05:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep This article is just as valid as many other articles.  Adding a little more information can bring this article a long way.  Next we are gonna hear that the football and basketball pages are not notable.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndstate (talk • contribs) 04:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment If these are propose guidlines, then they aren't offcial. It seems to me he's being a bully, and trying to get his way.  This has said before North Dakota is a small place but the residents take pride in ALL there high school and college teams.  If your gioing to get rid of one just get it over with and get rid of all of them.  Leopold Samsonite 05:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)Leopold Samsonite
 * Comment I think we need to remember that this is about the proposed deletion of an article and not about our personal motivations. We need to assume good faith and not get bogged down in petty criticism of each other — that gets us nowhere. --Matthew UND (talk) 05:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep NDSU is a Division I athletics institution on the same level as all the articles here.  It does not matter if the article is a about a bad baseball program.  It's not Wikipedia's place to distinguish between universities within Division I.  The fact that the nominator could not get the Division of the team the article is about is enough for me to think that not a lot of thought was put into the nomination. X96lee15 14:59, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, according to the NCAA's own website, this is a DII program. So finding accurate sourced information on the status of this program is proving a little iffy. Also, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument. There are over 300 DI schools. The fact that 20 or so of them have an article is irrelevant, as most of these are perennial top 25/national title contenders. - Smashville 16:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not saying otherstuffexistssothisarticleshouldexist. I'm saying that all articles about Division I baseball teams should be on wikipedia and you cannot say that one is more notable than another.  They are all within the same division. X96lee15 17:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you in some cases. College Football, for instance. Or basketball. You could even argue hockey, considering that hockey has been determined to be the NCAA's third largest breadwinner. However, when it comes to NCAA track, baseball, bowling, soccer, volleyball, golf and so forth, these teams are not inherently notable and need to actually have accomplishments to branch out from their main pages. Smashville 20:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with smashville, that team didn't do anything of note, and while they are all in the same division, (I want a link that proofs that it is division II) they are in different confrences. Most of the schools listed are from the major confrences like the ACC and Big Ten. Jaranda wat's sup 17:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You want "proofs that it is Division II"? I take that to mean you want proof that it is actually Division I. You're still questioning if NDSU is DI or DII? As far as links to prove this, search for "division I" "north dakota state" baseball on Google...are 28,900 results enough proof? --Matthew UND (talk) 21:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The official source, the NCAA, lists this school as DII. - Smashville 04:42, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep NDSU athletics are in Division I, so this meets WP:N. Just because you're not familiar with it, it doesn't mean it doesn't meet notability guidelines.-- milk the cows (Talk) 21:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * milk the cows you are correct it does meet the WP:N, but his panties are in a wad that it doesn't meet his special unapproved rules that he is trying to get passed. NDSU is DI, but they are still listed as DII becuase they are still under their probation period from their switch.Leopold Samsonite 23:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)Leopold Samsonite
 * Please comment on the content and not the contributor. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Smashville 16:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If you make one more personal attack, I will block you. Also it's a minor Division I school, so WP:N is a factor, I again recommend a merge as this is so little useful content. Jaranda wat's sup 18:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If you make one more personal attack, I will block you. Also it's a minor Division I school, so WP:N is a factor, I again recommend a merge as this is so little useful content. Jaranda wat's sup 18:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment: There is a very weak attempt at a catch-all athletics subpage, North Dakota State Bison which may be a good location to merge the baseball article. --Midnightdreary 13:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.