Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nothing Painted Blue


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete Nothing Painted Blue or Franklin Bruno. The albums are a different matter, and little policy-based reason has been given to keep the first two, so I have redirected these. The third, as pointed out below, does have a couple of reviews in good quality sources even if the article itself is a microstub, and so no consensus on this one. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Nothing Painted Blue

 * – ( View AfD View log ) •

This indie band that is only sporadically together does not show notability in multiple reliable sources, nor does it contain two or more members of other notable groups (see WP:BAND). I am also nominating the following related pages, as notability there relies on the notability here - and in none of the articles is it established:

-Addionne (talk) 19:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep: Sweet Jeebus!  I am pretty sure we can establish notability without much fuss.  Both Bruno and Hughes have played with the The Mountain Goats, so I am not sure the nom is correct about WP:BAND.  (ETA:  As for the individual albums, they can be merged into the Bruno article if not independently notable.)--Milowent • talkblp-r  19:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Only a 0PB fan would appreciate that Bruno wrote a Village Voice article in 1997 about the extent of coverage of the band on the web.. I see that the wikipedia articles are currently not well sources, but there are copious sources available with a bit of digging.--Milowent • talkblp-r  20:04, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: I link to a lot of sources lower down in this discussion.--Milowent • talkblp-r 16:32, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:BAND says notability can be established if the artist is a member of two or more notable bands.  In this case, this article does not assert sufficient notability for Nothing Painted Blue - so the musician, Franklin Bruno, does not meet that criteria.  (He does, however, deserve a mention on the The Mountain Goats article).  Peter Hughes is not mentioned in the article as a member of this group.  The albums by Bruno were released on an indie label and did not get enough press to warrant notability on their own. -Addionne (talk) 20:12, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hughes is a member of both, e.g.,.--Milowent • talkblp-r 20:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Bruno apparently has a new album out with Darnielle last month. Lookie here, full NPR piece on it:.   Other coverage:--Milowent • talkblp-r  20:28, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete All The Eskimo (talk) 21:25, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * WTF? Can you not read?--Milowent • talkblp-r  21:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete fails the GNG resoundingly.Bali ultimate (talk) 21:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a practical joke, right? You guys have never heard of Franklin Bruno?--Milowent • talkblp-r  22:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: The article under discussion here has been flagged for rescue by the Article Rescue Squadron.  <span style="font:13px 'Copperplate Gothic Light';border:#AAAACC 1px inset;background-color:#E0F4FE;color=#DD0000">Snotty Wong   chat 23:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not finding any convincing sources which would help these articles pass WP:BAND, WP:NALBUMS, or WP:GNG. Just because Milowent is intimately familiar with the band and its members doesn't mean they are notable.  The sources Milowent has provided above are not primarily about Nothing Painted Blue or Franklin Bruno, they are about John Darnielle and his new album.  They don't provide significant coverage of the band/musician/album being discussed here.  <span style="font:13px 'Copperplate Gothic Light';border:#AAAACC 1px inset;background-color:#E0F4FE;color=#DD0000">Snotty Wong   chat 23:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * To be clear, that new album is not a John Darnielle album, its an Extra Lens album, which is Darnielle and Bruno together, was that not obvious? I only cited those sources to illustrate a slew of coverage related to Bruno in just the last 30 days.  I did not provide sources about 0PB or Bruno's solo work in that comment, but responding to the nominator's incorrect statements about who is in OPB and their connections to The Mountain Goats.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  01:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither this article, nor the Mountain Goats article list Bruno as a member - but rather as a collaborator for two of their albums. Most articles say that the band primarily consists of Darnielle solo.  The discography article says live performances commonly comprise only Darnielle backed by Peter Hughes on bass guitar.
 * I didn't say I considered Bruno to be a member, though he is listed as a "former member" in the Mountain Goats navigational template, so clearly at least some editors think he was. (I wouldn't really think of Jon Wurster as a Mountain Goat either, but he's apparently considered a current member.  That's my Superchunk bias though.)  I do think of him as a noted collaborator with Darnielle on Mountain Goats work. (Washington Post, "Two of indie rock's finest storytellers John Darnielle Mountain Goats and Franklin Bruno team up..."); or as the Norwegian Dagbladet said, Bruno is "viktige støttespillere" (a key contributor)--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  17:06, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete All: Yes, I can read; no, I've never heard of Franklin Bruno (or, indeed, of any other band or performer mentioned in this kerfluffle); no, I don't feel there's anything innately humorous or relevant to AfD discussions about either fact. Milowent's impassioned arguments notwithstanding, I'm not seeing a whole lot of there, there.  Milowent, you are of course aware that meeting GNG - and, therefore, WP:BAND/MUSIC as well - requires that sources "address the subject directly in detail."  Sources that mention the subject in passing do not count. Period.  Bruno authoring a newspaper article does not count. Reviews that mention Bruno or Nothing Painted Blue in passing do not count.  Nor does the GNG give a pass to people who accumulate a number of such sources; six trivial mentions (or sixty, come to that) have exactly the same weight as one ... zero.  You need to come up with - and should know you need to come up with - multiple reliable sources which discuss Bruno, Nothing Painted Blue or these albums in significant detail. Anything else is a waste of our time.   Ravenswing  16:23, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There are many sources out there, some of which I added bare URLs of to the articles in the last 24 hours. I agree that the articles as nominated did not clearly demonstrate notability, but Bruno and Nothing Painted Blue are notable.  The sources, such as the bare URLs I already added, go far beyond trivial mentions and include album reviews in places like Spin and CMJ (leading hard copy music publications in the US),  Pitchfork and PopMatters (leading online music publications), and elsewhere (have to search this one but multiple excerpts appear) (scroll down to opb section).  I never suggested that Bruno authoring a newspaper article counts for notability, I just found it amusing.  There's no question that even in the last month his position as 1/2 of the Extra Lens has also received broad coverage .  Bruno's 2002 compilation with Jenny Toomey also received significant coverage..--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  16:45, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: the sources noted above were apparently not looked at by any of the prior !voters.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  04:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * None of the original voters appear to have come back to view these sources I cited.--Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r 06:30, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep all based on Milowent's findings. If Spin magazine and others review an album, its notable.  Ample coverage for all these things.   D r e a m Focus  09:00, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Franklin Bruno is notable enough that other artists have released cover albums. http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/8106-tempting-jenny-toomey-sings-the-songs-of-franklin-bruno/ - Jenny Toomey is certainly considered a notible musician by Wikipedia's standards.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.2.19 (talk) 17:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  —Milowent • <sup style="position:relative">talk<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">blp-r  16:31, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Nothing Painted Blue and Franklin Bruno. Milowent's sources look like enough to establish notability for those two at least. Delete or redirect the three albums as the coverage is far lighter for them. Alzarian16 (talk) 22:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep All I checked out A Cat May Look at a Queen and had not the slightest difficulty finding a couple of good detailed reviews to cite. The material is clearly notable and so there is no case for deletion. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:36, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.