Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/O Tahiti Nui Freedom


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is to keep and nomination is withdrawn. (non-admin closure) — UY Scuti Talk  19:58, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

O Tahiti Nui Freedom

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Fails WP:GNG. The article is about a canoe that undertook one expedition which received no minimal coverage aside from blogs. Ciridae (talk) 16:21, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oceania-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment – The RNZ International source in the article (here) is not a blog, it's a reliable news source. North America1000 18:18, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * , Agreed. It is still very minimal coverage though and does not warrant a separate article. As you've mentioned below, merging is one possibility but I don't think it will add any value to Outrigger canoe beyond the fact that it existed and that one expedition it undertook (that's hardly more than 2 lines). Ciridae (talk) 18:34, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment – Possibly merge to Outrigger canoe, which has no mention of the topic and would enhance the article, per WP:PRESERVE. North America1000 18:20, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are very few voyaging canoes at all in the world and they can all have articles, or at least be items in a list-article.  There are just 13 other members of Category:Replications of ancient voyages (such as the famous voyage of the Kontiki led by Thor Heyerdahl from South America to Polynesia, and such as replication of original settlement of Hawaii).  And there are just a few members of new Category:Voyaging canoes and new Category:Outrigger canoes.  Of voyaging canoes, many are double-hulled ones rather than outrigger type, so this one is all the more unusual.  If a list-article exists or could be started right now, the canoe could possibly be mostly covered in it, but there is already so much detailed information available in the article that it would already be time to split it out as a separate article.
 * I don't see how the nominator can know that there was "no coverage aside from blogs". The intended statement would be that they found no coverage besides in blogs, but even that is controverted by the source noted by .  I imagine there is other reliable source coverage, too, and that this canoe and its voyage will have to be covered again and again in books and articles reviewing replications of ancient voyages.  I haven't myself searched Google scholar or books for this one;  I think there's already enough reason to keep. -- do  ncr  am  18:36, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * As I've already commented above, "no coverage" was inaccurate on my part and I've amended that. The coverage is minimal though and not significant enough to warrant a separate article. Ciridae (talk) 18:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks, and sorry I did not see that comment while I was in edit mode, where it is hard to read. (It's too bad we are saddled with Wikipedia's poor editing interface.) -- do  ncr  am  18:58, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Further the RNZ International source itself mentions interview coverage in Nouvelles de Tahiti (a daily newspaper). Google Scholar search yields article "French Polynesia" by L. Gonschor in journal The Contemporary Pacific, 2011 - muse.jhu.edu with excerpts "... The race by two neo-traditional canoes to reach the 2010 Shanghai World Expo before its closing was won by neither team. One of the two canoes, O Tahiti Nui Freedom, reached Shanghai on November 22 after a voyage of 114 days. ..."


 * and "... subsequently left the project. Gaining the support of Assembly Speaker Oscar Temaru, Ottino built his own canoe in record time and named it O Tahiti Nui Freedom, in tune with Temaru's political message. Both canoes were ..."


 * And the end of the preceding article by Jon Tikivanotau [and?] M Jonassen in that journal (which appears for me in image/pageview of start of French Polynesia article, on second page here, includes coverage of other voyaging canoes:"Cook Islands Voyaging Society members assisted in constructing several sea-voyaging canoes (CIN, 18 July 2009). Two months later, double-hulled canoes Te Marumaru Atua (Cook Islands), Faafaite (Tahiti, French Polynesia), Uto ni Yalo (Fiji, Matua O Maui (Aotearoa), and Hine Moana (mixed nations: Samoa, Tonga and Vanuatu) arrived in Avana (CIN, 31 May 2010). A symbolic traditional stone-laying ceremony followed in honor of the five voyaging canoes that had sailed from New Zealand to Rarotonga (CIN, 2 June 2010)."


 * In my view all of those "neo-traditional" voyaging canoes deserve coverage in a list-article (perhaps in a "neo-traditional" section of List of voyaging canoes, currently a red-link) and possibly also deserve separate articles. That last is an example of the kind of obligatory summary review of other voyages that I expect will be repeated in coverage of new ones, which is different than coverage centering on the O Tahiti Nui Freedom itself.  'CIN is Cook Island News, a daily newspaper in Rarotonga.  CIN is one source that would probably cover O Tahiti Nui Freedom directly, too.
 * The full citation for the Gonschor article seems to be The Contemporary Pacific Vol. 24, No. 1, 2012 "Polynesia in Review: Issues and Events, 1 July 2010 to 30 June 2011", by LORENZ GONSCHOR, MARGARET MUTU, FORREST WADE YOUNG and HAPAKUKE PIERRE LELEIVAI, pp. 172-206 Published by: University of Hawai'i Press, with stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/23725690, Page Count: 35.
 * -- do ncr  am  18:58, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a model article is the Hokulea, a long-ish well-developed article about a 1975-built voyaging canoe, that has reliably sourced coverage of each of many voyages (including one where it capsized) from 1975 until now. It is still a bit dangerous, and it's always thrilling IMO, whenever one of these attempts an ocean voyage without instruments;  every such trip is extraordinary and newsworthy IMO.  The O Tahiti Nui Freedom canoe likely will garner coverage of many voyages during its lifetime, too, so the article will grow towards being like the Hokulea one, I expect.
 * But seeing the redlinks for other notable (IMO) voyaging canoes, if there is not a consensus to Keep this article outright, then perhaps moving this article to List of voyaging canoes and developing out that as a list would be a good step. (That would be a "Keep" decision also, technically, i think.)  Alternatively, assuming the list-article should be created anyhow, this could be redirected to it (a "redirect" decision);  either way there would exist a redirect and the edit history would be saved.  If I have time I will start Draft:List of voyaging canoes as a draft which could be utilized one way or the other.  I prefer either of the "Keep" variations. -- do  ncr  am  19:24, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Future expectations of coverage cannot be used as sourcing for an article due to WP:CRYSTAL. So the canoe may likely garner coverage of many voyages is not sufficient grounds for notability. I still have reservations whether the sources you've listed above constitute significant coverage since I don't have access to the Gonschor article. Yes, moving/redirecting is an option if the voyaging canoes taken together would form a valid list/article (they should mostly). Ciridae (talk) 19:39, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hokulea is a model article but it has undertaken multiple voyages, unlike this one. Ciridae (talk) 19:41, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per WP:GNG as indicated by the RNZ International coverage already in the article as well as additional coverage by China Central Television, Radio Australia, Radio 1 (Tahiti), La Dépêche de Tahiti and Tahiti Pacifique.--Oakshade (talk) 03:13, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   07:52, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep may not be as notable as the Kon-Tiki expedition, but it does appear to at least meet WP:GNG as a recreation of historial significance (too lazy to fix that grammar). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loriendrew (talk • contribs) 18:05, 2 April 2016‎ (UTC)
 * Comment I'll withdraw my nomination since there are better alternatives to deletion being discussed at this point. Ciridae (talk) 09:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.