Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/O Zittre nicht, mein lieber Sohn


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep. Buck  ets  ofg 18:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

O Zittre nicht, mein lieber Sohn

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I can hardly imagine, that an article about a single aria out of a larger opus would meet any notability criteria - though Notability (music) does not even mention arias. Yet: Lyrics belong in WikiSource, but tend to be copyright violations and Songs are not generally notable, and should be listed under album or artist as appropriate (Articles for deletion/Precedents) FordPrefect42 23:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about Wiki policies (deletion, notability, etc.) but I found this article to be very useful. It was exactly what I was looking for: technical discussion and lyrics. I hope it stays somewhere (Wiki or WikiSource(?)), as long as it's easy to find again, at least with a hot link from a non-deleted, more notable topic page ("Magic Flute"? "Der Holle Rache ..."?). As far as copyright is concerned, isn't a libretto from 1791 out of copyright? I suppose a particular translation might be copyright protected (if less than 95 years old) but I don't know the source of the one supplied on the main article page.AdderUser 13:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The five lines of useful information might easily incorporated in the article about The Magic Flute. The lyrics should not be in wikipedia at all, but rather in wikisource, because it is the right place for it. Copyright matters are not the main point here, but you got it completely right: the original text is in the public domain, but the translation cited here is copyright protected (cf., scroll down to the very bottom). --FordPrefect42 17:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge into The Magic Flute. Lyrics posted are copyvio. If possible, transwiki PD/copyleft lyrics to wikisource. Vassyana 12:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I started and wrote most of this article. I believed (and still do) that the lyrics fall under fair use, but if not, I'd be willing to get rid of the translation. The lyrics themselves are no longer copyrighted, as noted below. Many musicians, myself included, find it very helpful when an article about an aria (especially on wikipedia) includes the lyrics. Musical scores normally do not have the lyrics organized aside, only under the appropriate notes. This format makes it easier to study, analyze and perform better. Also, I believe that the aria is famous enough to deserve its own article. True, the gist of it could be put into the Magic Flute article, but when an aria is famous enough, it deserves its own article. There's a reason why there's an entire "Arias" category in wikipedia. In short: 1) This arias is famous enough to have its own article 2) This aria is sure complex enough to be analyzed in much greater detail, thereby needing more focus by future editors to expand it which I believe can only be done in a stand-alone article 3) if the translation of the lyrics is indeed copyright violation and not fair use I'd be happy to remove it, perhaps supplying my own translation. This article should not be deleted. John Holly 19:04, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Question. Can you find a non-copyright or appropriately licensed (GPDL, Creative Commons, etc)? Can you provide some references showing its notable place as a distinct piece in and of itself? Vassyana 11:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Non-copyright or appropriately licensed version of the lyrics translation? I guess that scouring the library for at least a distinctly old libretto translation could help; I myself cannot do that any time soon. The rest of the questions refers to references indicating the aria's notability? I'm afraid I cannot at the moment. Given enough time I could reference at least a couple of books. It'll be easy to just point out that every musical dictionary enlists this aria (along with Der Hölle Rache, Isis und Osiris and Die Bieldnis as notable arias) under The Magic Flute as a notable aria. Musical dictionaries might also mention this aria as an entry, being the first classical aria to use the F6 note. John Holly 14:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep or merge. No point deleting useful information. Kla'quot 06:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Once more, just to make my point clear: The lyrics should not appear in Wikipedia, as Wikipedia is no source book. A link to WikiSource or the Aria Database is sufficient. "Source text generally belongs on WikiSource." (cf. What Wikipedia is not). For the rest of the article: keep by merging into The Magic Flute, but delete this article. This aria is certainly not outstanding enough to legitimate splitting up the information about the Magic Flute into various mini articles. --FordPrefect42 12:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete unless sourced. If this subject deserves its own article there should be multiple references clearly demonstrating this. Addhoc 15:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.