Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oath of Genesis


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. czar ⨹   19:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Oath of Genesis

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Non-notable game, no claims of notability and only primary or self-generated sources available. Declined speedy since A7 does not apply to software products. § FreeRangeFrog croak 19:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete: No evidence of notability for this recently-published game. The WP:SPA contributor is also the item's author and publisher. AllyD (talk) 20:35, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails WP:NSOFT. The article is based on primary sources and only talks about gameplay, plot, story and release. The article has nothing to suggest that it is notable and a Google search did not help. &mdash;  Yash! [talk] 02:21, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Dolescum (talk) 03:09, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: Game is currently in review under IMDb and other game rating sites. Also provided official website and fan page. Search about "Oath of Genesis" and "Oath of Genesis ML" and you can learn about it. Game information is available on Wiki. So, there is more reason to delete this article. KevalPandya (Talk) 10:58, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * Question: IMDb rating is ready for insertion into wikipedia article. KevalPandya (Talk) 21:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * See Wikipedia:Citing IMDb on the limited relevance of IMDb as a source. AllyD (talk) 16:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Question: Is there anything I need to prove that my article has notability ? KevalPandya (Talk) 23:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * This explains it quite succinctly. § FreeRangeFrog croak 18:00, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Question: Some days ago a article was released in newspaper about owner and oath of genesis game by writer. Can it be submit as evidence as notability and independent source ? KevalPandya (Talk) 23:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * It depends on various factors like the newspaper, who wrote it, what the newspaper is in relation to the game/owner, and so on. For example, if the LA Times wrote about the game and was not just reprinting a press release (or basing the bulk of the article on the press release) then that could be used. However if the owner's college newspaper wrote about the game/owner then that cannot be used since the owner attends the college and they would have a vested interest in writing about him. Similarly if the game is only briefly mentioned in relation to something else and/or is only 1-3 sentences long, then that won't show a depth of coverage and would be a WP:TRIVIAL source at best. The only way to really know is to see the newspaper article in question, to be honest. I also want to clarify a bit on the IMDb ratings. Since these ratings are the result of anonymous users logging in to the system and leaving a rating, they cannot be used as a reliable source for notability. At best IMDb can be used as a trivial source to back up basic information like cast lists and release information and even then that can be debatable. For example, at one point this one woman managed to successfully insert a profile in IMDb that asserted that she was going to play She-Hulk in one of the previous Avengers movies. This ended up being false and it was removed, but it took a really, really long time for IMDb to catch this- and this was on a very high profile film. That's kind of the reason why IMDb is kind of unusable for most data, let alone notability purposes. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Basically what you need right now are reviews in outlets like IGN, PC Gamer, and other review outlets that would show up as critical reviews on places like Metacritic. Examples of this can be seen here and here. I'm not really seeing this and to be honest, it doesn't look like there is any coverage at all for this game. Primary sources (anything released by the company itself) cannot show notability and to be honest, you really shouldn't be showing merchant links in the article at all. Not only can this be seen as an attempt to promote the game, but a large reason why they're considered inappropriate is because including these links can be seen as an endorsement of the product and the sellers/websites and Wikipedia wants to avoid seeming like they endorse any specific product or seller. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:42, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete/move to AfC. Right now this game does not pass notability guidelines. There has been no coverage of the game in any outlet, at least in any that we can verify. There is apparently a news article out there, but that one news article will not be enough to show notability for the game. I think that the best course of action right now is to move this to the draftspace at WP:AfC. Not only will this give the editor a chance to work on the article while more sources become available, but AfC will allow another editor to look at the article and approve it before it gets resubmitted to the mainspace. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  03:49, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete/move to AfC. A case of WP:TOOSOON. Pax 09:21, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep : Information, details, sources and references are updated. Check and review. KevalPandya (Talk) 21:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * You cannot !vote "Keep" more than once in the same deletion debate. Sergecross73   msg me  16:07, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - I haven't found any coverage in reliable, third party sources to meet the WP:GNG. Additionally, as some others have pointed out, judging by the article creator and game creators same name, there's very likely some WP:COI and WP:PROMOTION issues here as well. (Sidenote: Also strange that all the characters of this game take character names from this game.) Sergecross73   msg me  16:16, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep : I have submitted IMDb source. Also I have submitted Wikia Article. But both has removed it. Also, owner of game can submit article to Wikipedia. The point of view of article writer should be neutral. So, I have submitted as view of normal editor. Also, I haven't put any promotion links or text for game promotion. Soon I will submit rating from game rating sites as notability and independent source. So, there should be no objection about this article on Wikipedia. KevalPandya (Talk) 22:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
 * Again, please stop writing "Keep" before every comment you make. Its only done once per discussion, so the discussion closer can roughly see the number individuals who contributed, and their stance to go with it. You've said "Keep" once already, so you shouldn't any more. Sergecross73   msg me  17:02, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep:Icekings25 (talk) 18:10, 28 April 2015 (UTC)I don't think that this page should be deleted. Its obvious that this guy is a new user so it takes time for the independent sources and I think that soon it will pass notability guidelines. So he must get some more time to prove himself.
 * That's not a valid reason to keep an article. I don't mean to be blunt, but if he doesn't know what he's doing, he shouldn't be trying to create entire articles all by himself yet. But regardless, the fate of the article is decided by the third party reliable sources that discuss the subject in detail, not the skill-level of the editor. Additionally, I find it rather suspicious that your first edit in 2 years, and your 3rd edit all time, was to leave a comment here at a deletion discussion. Please be aware that this is not a vote, and that editors are not to be asking for people to comment just to defend their article for them. Sergecross73   msg me  18:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keval Pandya (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2015 (UTC): @Sergecross73... Hello, Icekings25 is my companion and i told him to give review about my article. I didn't tell him to defend my article from deletion. As I mentioned before, I will submit reviews by game rating sites as they approve it. What we want is little time to edit article. So, I request you to remove deletion tag from article. And in future if you see any text related to game promotion, you can delete my article even without notice. So, I request you.
 * That is not how Wikipedia handles things though. If no sources exist during the course of these discussions, then the article would be deleted for now, and recreated only if/when enough third party sources cover the title in detail. If you wish to pursue creating the article after it gets deleted, you can still work on a WP:DRAFT and then get it approved through the AFC process - Articles for Creation. (This is what the editors above were referring to.) Sergecross73   msg me  19:18, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:TOOSOON, fails WP:GNG. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete or move to draft. There are no hits in a WP:VG/RS Google custom search, which is definitely a bad sign.  If we move it to draft space, the author can work on it in peace and add sources as they become available.  That's a viable alternative to deletion, though I kind of doubt that it will become notable in any reasonable period of time given its current lack of notability. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:45, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * @NinjaRobotPirate... Hello, I saw a Wikipedia page like mine game. Ys: The Ark of Napishtim. Can you differentiate that page and mine. Both page has given same sources. Also, admin has just put "verification" tag on that. There is no speedy deletion tag on that page. On other hand, i have also given information from IMDb. One editor has complained me that, that I have edited every thing. But, i have just put plot correctly and my profile small bio correctly. Everything else is generated by IMDb. So, Please remove speedily deletion tag from this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KevalPandya (talk • contribs) 16:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The IMDb is not a reliable source, as it is user-generated. It doesn't matter if you add a link to the IMDb.  The other article is notable because it has coverage in reliable sources.  If you do a Google search for that article, it turns out there are many reviews listed at Metacritic, including IGN.  Notability is intrinsic to a topic, and sources merely need to exist rather than be listed in the article.  That means that nobody is forced to add sources to the article, but they should.  If no sources exist, then the article can be deleted.  That's what's going on here.  We need coverage in reliable source, and the IMDb is not a reliable source. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Additionally, a simple search shows that there are all sorts of sources available for the Ys article you listed above. There's 35 separate reviews at the PS2 version's MetaCritic page alone. The difference is that there are zero reviews available at MetaCritic for Oath of Genesis, and zero sources available at all for it that aren't connected to you. I assure you that, if someone nominated that Ys article for deletion, someone would point out all the sources that exist but just aren't on there yet, and the deletion discussion would be dismissed. Sergecross73   msg me  17:42, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point, there is a difference between a badly written article about a notable subject and an ariicle about a subject that is not notable.--64.229.166.24 (talk) 05:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete-I can't even find a page on Gamefaqs for this. The IMDB page does not sound like its a video game either looking over it. Wgolf (talk) 17:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I haven't found a single reliable third party source on it yet. Most Google searches just come up with a bunch of irrelevant hits related to the The Bible, due to the word "Oath" showing up in the Book of Genesis. Sergecross73   msg me  17:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete – Fails WP:GNG. --The1337gamer (talk) 19:24, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Detele - Fails WP:NSOFT and WP:GNG. Ijon (talk) 06:49, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.