Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oladeji A. Olanrewaju


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The argument regarding the sourcing added not meeting Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources is persuasive, and hence the consensus of established Wikipedia editors providing policy-based rationales supports the deletion of this article. Daniel (talk) 09:49, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Oladeji A. Olanrewaju

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Subject of the article fails WP:POLITICIAN. Local government chairman are generally not considered notable. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 07:33, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Local Government Chairman (or woman) are just like County Executives here in the US and the Leader of the County Council in the UK. I do not see County Executive and Leader of the County Council pages of being tagged for deletion. The County Board of Legislators here in the US is very similar to the Local Government Council, the elected Legislators represent a district, while elected Members represent a ward and are in charge of a field (ex. Environment, Finance and Supplies, Estate & Valuation, Youths & Sports). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. &mdash;&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·E·C) 20:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. &mdash;&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·E·C) 20:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment. If Wikipedia is to believed, Local government areas of Nigeria states that there are 774 local government areas. Per County executive, it appears as though there are fewer county executive chairmen or leaders in the United States than in Nigeria. If you follow the trail of links, it does appear that there are articles for people on various county boards for the more populated areas (e.g. Members of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, Government of Sacramento County, California, Fairfax County Board of Supervisors). - Location (talk) 20:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, even in the United States and the United Kingdom county councillors don't get an automatic inclusion freebie on Wikipedia just because they exist. Local government officials can get into Wikipedia if they can be reliably sourced well enough to satisfy WP:GNG, but they do not get an automatic right to keep a Wikipedia article that's written this poorly and/or rests entirely on primary sources as this does. WP:NPOL explicitly limits the notability of local political figures to those who can be well-sourced to reliable source coverage, and does not grant automatic inclusion rights to all members of any county or municipal government just because it's possible to verify that they exist. Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if it can be sourced properly to substantive coverage in reliable sources. Bearcat (talk) 21:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Can You please inform me of any deleted County Executive Pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There have been many, trust me. I'm not going to spend my time hunting down every past example for you, but for one very recent example, look at Articles for deletion/Barry Saul. Bearcat (talk) 17:35, 9 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep. I went into this AfD thinking delete per User:Bearcat's reasoning, but then I saw he is chief executive of a city of 1.2 million people. That would definitely qualify for notability in a Western country, so it also should in Nigeria. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:33, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not without reliable source coverage to support it, it wouldn't. Bearcat (talk) 01:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The state website is a reliable source. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

How about in the case of Oladeji A. Olanrewaju, think of him as the Mayor of a city of over a million people. Also, both Fairfax County, Virginia and Dublin (used in the example of Articles for deletion/Barry Saul), used in previous arguments, have populations that are less (in Dublin's case it's population less than half of Ogbomosho's) than Ogbomosho's.

As well, in Dublin the equivalent of The LG Chairman is the Lord Mayor Críona Ní Dhálaigh who does have page, as well as 9/10 of Supervisors on the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors.
 * Doesn't matter how big a place is or isn't. He still doesn't get an inclusion freebie just for existing, if the article isn't citing any reliable source coverage to earn him inclusion — the mayor of a town of ten can get into Wikipedia if good enough coverage is there, and the mayor of a city with a population of a million can fail to get into Wikipedia if the coverage isn't there. Bearcat (talk) 01:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Done, I have put the sources, though when has a mayor of a city with a population of a million can failed to get into Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 01:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * When they weren't properly sourced. Which this still isn't, because nothing you added just now counts as any sort of reliable source. Bearcat (talk) 02:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Which sources are you claiming are not reliable? The state sources are clearly reliable and they indicate he holds the position claimed. Do you really expect an African official to be as heavily covered online as one in the United States? It is utter nonsense to claim that the mayor of a city of 1.2 million people in a Western country would not be considered to be notable by Wikipedia standards, whether you fall back on WP:GNG or not. He would be considered to have inherent notability, discounting any laughable claims that there is no such thing on Wikipedia (since there clearly is and always has been). -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * notability has nothing to do with population size in this case. Agege and Alimosho with |population size of 1,033,064 and 2,047,026 respectively are local government area in Lagos State. Does these population sizes makes the local government chairmen automatically notable? Local government chairmen are generally considered non-notable per WP:POLITICIAN but may be notable if they meet WP:GNG, which the subject of this article fails. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 00:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we've got a bit of systemic bias here. Any of us who've been around for any length of time will know that whatever the guidelines say there most certainly is a presumption of inherent notability for the chief executive of a city of that size in a Western country. For God's sake, even ordinary councillors of cities of that size have presumed notability, let alone the council head. And please let's not have any guff about "rules": we all know it's the de facto truth. Try to delete an article about a city councillor in an American city of that size, even one who was around long before the internet and therefore doesn't have much sourcing, and see what response you get! -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't see any bias arguments here. I think WP:GNG and WP:POLITICIAN are clear enough and editors need not be reminded that other stuff exists is usually not a valid argument to keep an article. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 12:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Really? You can't see any systemic bias? Well, I'll leave it there then. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, no — a chief executive of a city of that size in a Western country doesn't get an automatic inclusion freebie that's parked entirely on primary sourced verification of their existence. If no indication of adequate reliable source coverage can be located, then they do get deleted. (Just as an example, even some of the largest cities in the United Kingdom fail to get their mayors over WP:NPOL, because their mayoralty is a ceremonial post that rotates annually in an "every city councillor gets a turn" sort of way — the Directly elected mayors in England and Wales are the only ones who get an automatic presumption of "because mayor" notability, while any other mayor in either country gets an article only if they can be immediately sourced over WP:GNG as an individual. The list of British cities whose mayors do not get an automatic notability freebie just for being mayors even includes Manchester and Birmingham. You may think that mayors of cities of this size always get an automatic presumption of notability and never get deleted — but that's not, in fact, true. Bearcat (talk) 21:27, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Key Word: Ceremonial. Key Phrase: A ceremonial post that rotates annually in an "every city councillor gets a turn" sort of way.  Oladeji A. Olanrewaju's Post is neither of these, he is elected leader of a city of 1.2 million people, more than both Manchester and Birmingham proper, and that is not even including the people in other areas of the LGA.  To add to that before you go saying that the mayors of the cities of Birmingham and Manchester do not have pages, the equivalent of the LG Chairmen in both cities do have a page.
 * The state sources as well as an independent news reference were put into the page, How are they not reliable sources. Also, Bearcat remember Wikipedia's 2nd Pillar.Aelimian21 (talk) 16:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's second pillar is not a thing I've failed to take into account; it's exactly what I am pointing out. Bearcat (talk) 23:46, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * How?? Your arguments have shown extreme bias. Aelimian21 (talk) 01:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)Aelimian21 (talk) 00:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No, my comments most certainly have not shown any "bias" whatsoever. Bearcat (talk) 18:18, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you sure???Aelimian21 (talk) 19:39, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. Bearcat (talk) 20:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * What ever helps you sleep at night. Aelimian21 (talk) 14:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * All of them. Reliable sourcing is media coverage of the subject in newspapers, magazines, books, radio or television — it is not the mere existence of his name in a directory of officeholders on the government's own website, or a press release on the website of the First Lady, or a post to a user-generated football fan forum, or an unreliable blog. But every single source that's been added here so far is one of those four ineligible types of sources. Bearcat (talk) 21:27, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The state website is obviously a very reliable source, and which source is the blog???????¿? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ghana MMA is a blog, and the state's own website is a primary source that cannot confer notability on a person just because their name happens to appear on it. A person cannot get over our inclusion rules just by happening to have a profile on the website of an organization that they're directly affiliated with, because if they could then anybody on earth could game our rules by sticking a self-penned public relations bio on a Tumblr — reliable sourcing is newspaper, magazine, book, radio or television coverage, not "has a profile on their own employer's own website or a listing in a directory". Bearcat (talk) 23:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, it is not your inclusion rules, set aside your Administrator status (which is very good for you), you are just another Wikipedian, as am I, I have just as much of a say as you do whether I am a 12-year old from New York or a 49-year old from Oklahoma. Aelimian21 (talk) 01:36, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't claim they were "my" inclusion rules. They're Wikipedia's inclusion rules, not my own personal ones, and nobody — not me, not you, not nobody nowhere never — gets to claim any entitlement to any special exemption from them. Bearcat (talk) 17:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * First of all, Ghana MMA is not a blog, and I repeat not a blog. 2nd, I put another independent news reference into the page, and Third, to quote Necrothesp, The state sources are clearly reliable and they indicate he holds the position claimed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 00:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * and don't you dare say The Nation is a blogAelimian21 (talk) 01:18, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The article did not contain a citation to The Nation at the time I posted that comment. But there is still a problem with the citation to The Nation that's been added: it doesn't link to any article about this person in that newspaper, but just lands at the front splash page of the entire website. Bearcat (talk) 17:56, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see you're getting confused here about what "reliable sources" means. The state website is clearly a reliable source. It's not "significant coverage" under WP:GNG, what is what you're getting at, but it is certainly a reliable source. There's a difference between reliable sourcing and significant coverage. Blogs and forums are not reliable sources, it's true, but official websites and press releases are, whether they're just directories or not. Does he have "significant coverage"? No, he doesn't. However, I've addressed this above. He comes from Nigeria, not a country with great internet coverage. We have to assess whether an official of a similar level in the West would be considered eligible for an article. The answer is quite clearly, yes, without a doubt. Sometimes we have to use common sense instead of resorting to dogma and spouting "the rules". -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, I'm not getting confused about anything. The part you left out of that summary is that reliable sourcing also has to be independent of the subject — what a person says about themselves in a public relations profile on an affiliated source can be self-serving, puffed up, distorted and/or not entirely accurate in any number of ways (which is precisely why we can't, for just one example, keep an article about a television journalist that's sourced only to their staff profile on the website of their own television station.) And Nigeria may not have the greatest web presence in the world, but it most certainly does still have newspapers and television and radio stations and other media that count as reliable sourcing — nothing in Wikipedia's rules requires our sources to be web-accessible. Bearcat (talk) 17:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It really is tiresome to continually have to explain to editors, especially experienced ones, that official sites are considered to be reliable sources. Nowhere does it say they're not. They are not self-published sites. -- Necrothesp (talk) 21:34, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Not even fractionally as tiresome as it is to continually have to explain to editors that official sites cannot confer notability in and of themselves, if the rest of the sourcing around them is inadequate. The fact of having an official website, or being listed on the official website of a directly-related organization, does not constitute a "get out of actual media coverage free" pass. Bearcat (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete he's not the mayor of Ogbomosho, he's a local official who heads only the northern half of it. That's fairly low level, and less than a million inhabitants. Freebies here only for Oyo State legislators and governors, and assorted statewide officials. The Fairfax County supervisors should be nominated for deletion. The Dublin mayor is notable because it's the capital city of a sovereign country of some size. Refs in the article are routine trivial mentions, there's not a single in-depth source to get some info on this person. Article is actually a WP:COATRACK for a list of non-notable names. Kraxler (talk) 15:10, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The LG Chairman is the highest ranking official of Ogbomosho, due to the fact that Ogbomosho South is just made up of the southern suburbs of Ogbomosho. Also, Ogbomosho does not have a Mayor.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 19:09, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Kraxler, if you actually read the articles you'd see that the city of Ogbomosho is almost entirely within the district of Ogbomosho North. Ogbomosho South is mostly rural; it's just named after the neighbouring city. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make any difference, it's far too low-level for inherent notability. Besides, it would need an editorial judgment (guessing) as to what it the actual size of his bailiwick and the duties the office carries. We can't do that here, we need to follow the notability guidelines. Inherent notability starts at State level, and is occasionally extended to well known very large, or countries' capital, cities' mayors and councillors. The subject of this article needs "significant coverage in multiple reliable sources independent of the subject" to pass GNG, and here there's none. Kraxler (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The LGA is the 3rd tier of government in Nigeria, which is in no way low-level. Aelimian21 (talk) 16:21, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's too low, under our guidelines. Period. Guidelines were established to serve a purpose. Kraxler (talk) 16:45, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The Counties of the USA are the third tier yet many heads of these county have pages, such as Joanie Mahoney and Steve Schuh. Aelimian21 (talk) 19:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:OTHERSTUFF. Nominate Mahoney for deletion, and see what happens. Schuh is a former State legislator, and thus passes the guideline. Kraxler (talk) 19:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Under your logic, exhibited in previous comments, both Joanie Mahoney and Steve Schuh's pages should be deleted. Aelimian21 (talk) 20:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Now I suggest you read again " Schuh is a former State legislator, and thus passes the guideline." and try to understand that. (Well. it means that there's no way to delete Schuh's article, but it has nothing to do with his current position as County executive.) Kraxler (talk) 02:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe you are the one not reading as you are avoiding the facts that from what you stated before Joanie Mahoney's page and countless other pages such as Bernard Caprasse and Cathy Berx should be deleted. Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21.
 * I don't know where you got that notion. Caprasse and Berx are provincial governors. Do you claim that Olanrewaju is the Governor of Oyo State? Kraxler (talk) 15:11, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Provinces are below Regions and the Central Government, therefore they are third tier, and you have continuously stated that "Third Tier Government is not notable". Aelimian21 (talk) 17:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Belgium has a different administrative structure, the second tier is split between the regions, the communities and the provinces, all of which have a different set of duties. Historically, the regions were created only in the 1980s as an intermediate level (similar to one and a half) while the national government is first tier and the provinces second tier. There is absolutely no doubt that Olanrewaju's office is far below State level. If there were regions in Nigeria, then he would be fourth tier. Kraxler (talk) 19:24, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Article 3 of the Belgian Constitution divides Belgium into three regions: the Flemish Region, the Walloon Region and the Brussels Region. Below the Regions are the Provinces.  Also, I would advise you to read about the Nigerian System, Olanrewaju's office is not, and has never been is "far below State Level".  Plus there are no regions in Nigeria, therefore he isn't fourth tier.  That is just common sense.       — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 20:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I never said it was fourth tier, it was a ~hypothetical comparison with the Belgian system. But I suggest you read WP:OTHERSTUFF again, this is Nigeria not Belgium. Kraxler (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * What, you clearly stated that the LGA is fourth tier, and are you actually saying that Caprasse and Berx are notable because they are Belgian, and due to Olanrewaju nationality he is not notable.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 01:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest you ask your English teacher what "If there were regions in Nigeria, then he would be fourth tier." means. Kraxler (talk) 14:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest you read about the Nigerian System because there are no regions in Nigeria, therefore he isn't fourth tier. Aelimian21 (talk) 16:29, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, you still haven't answered my question, Are you saying that Caprasse and Berx are notable because they are Belgian, and due to Olanrewaju nationality he is not notable?Aelimian21 (talk) 22:20, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The answer is no. Nationality has nothing to do with notability. You didn't ask your English teacher, so there's no reason to rehash the 4th-tier issue. And, Olanrewaju is not notable because there's not a single source with info on his person. All we know is that he is some local officeholder. Nothing else. thus he fails WP:GNG. Please read the guideline. Kraxler (talk) 00:16, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe you need to ask your English Teacher how to read, THERE ARE NO REGIONS IN 🇳🇬 Nigeria, THEREFORE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AREA IS NOT FOURTH TIER. Also, ask your English Teacher what words not to start a sentence with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aelimian21 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll ask what words not to start a sentence with, which seems to be a ver interesting subject to talk about. A suggestion I'd like to thank you for. Kraxler (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You're Welcome. Aelimian21 (talk) 19:31, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The chief executive of a city of over a million people is "far too low-level for inherent notability"? Now you're just being silly. "Guidelines were established to serve a purpose." You do realise they're called guidelines? Not rules? They're modified by consensus, which is established, among other places, at AfD. -- Necrothesp (talk) 21:41, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "chief executive of a city of over a million people" is pure guesswork. It's nowhere described as that, neither the size nor the duties of office. Guidelines are not modified at AfD, they are modified by consensus at the guideline (talk) page; at AfD consensus is established concerning the subject of an article. And yes, guidelines should guide, not be treated with contempt. Kraxler (talk) 02:19, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 10:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Local low level politician. He's not the mayor, as Kraxler pointed out above. There is no significant 3rd party coverage of this person anywhere. And I also agree about this article being a coatrack. The Undead Never Die (talk) 11:23, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In this city there is no mayor and the LGA is the 3rd tier of government in Nigeria, which is in no way low-level. Aelimian21 (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. I believe there should be in-depth coverage for a stand-alone article and there does not appear to be any. I have no objection to redirecting to Ogbomosho North. - Location (talk) 20:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.