Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Olav Zipser (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No prejudice against a re-nomination in 2-3 months. Randykitty (talk) 16:49, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Olav Zipser
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Seems like a heavily padded biography that fails WP:NBIO, likely part of a small walled garden set of promotional articles related to this person and his business(es) such as The First School of Modern SkyFlying (see also Space Games, Freeflying). There are some mentions of him in passing here and there, but the sources generally are of low reliability and fail WP:SIGCOV (they are not about him, or the few that are are not independent or niche interviews or such). I have serious doubts that a Sports Emmy Award is enough to meet ANYBIO, it seems much less significant than the mainstream Emmies. Previous AfD found one article about him in Arizona Daily Star. I don't think that's enough, and the promotional style of the article is a concern as well. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 16:23, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Aviation and Germany. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  16:23, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Skydiving and parachuting are fringe sports. Whilst the sports themselves are often mentioned in mainstream media, the pioneers and champions famous within the sports are generally only featured in skydiving and parachuting specific publications and websites.
 * The Sports Emmy was verified previously via administrators (original certificate submitted) and there exists extensive and solid coverage on Olav Zipser, The Space Games, and The First School of Modern SkyFlying in the following articles:
 * https://ukparachuting.co.uk/history-freeflying-olav-zipser/
 * https://parachutist.com/Article/olav-zipser-d-11733
 * https://uspa.org/safetyday/olav-zipser-d-11733
 * https://www.fai.org/page/isc-artistic-events
 * https://www.cypres.aero/catching-up-with-olav-zipser/
 * https://paramag.fr/contenus/archives/n128/article/article-us.html
 * https://www.skydivemag.com/new/sky-on-stage-2/
 * Numerous mentions in British Skydiving Magazine:
 * https://britishskydiving.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/197-2000-3.pdf - Birth of FreeFlying - Pages 12 - 17
 * https://britishskydiving.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/189-1999-1.pdf - Space Games article on page 7
 * https://britishskydiving.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/201-2001-1.pdf - Space Games article on page 35
 * Numerous mentions in published books (searchable via Google):
 * https://www.google.pt/search?q=olav+zipser+skydive&hl=en&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALiCzsYDuI905oUGR8sqTEJhQS9WcEk-0w%3A1669902430913&ei=XrCIY66nN8-KkdUP--Oj8A4&ved=0ahUKEwiuztCpx9j7AhVPRaQEHfvxCO4Q4dUDCAk&uact=5&oq=olav+zipser+skydive&gs_lcp=Cg1nd3Mtd2l6LWJvb2tzEANQ0ARYiwxglA5oAHAAeACAAbABiAHlCZIBAzAuOZgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-books
 * More mentions here:
 * http://www.pilotspost.com/arn0000102
 * http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/aerospace-engineering/red-bull-stratos/interview-olav-zipser-freefly-astronaut-project/
 * https://www.universetoday.com/102289/revolutionary-new-space-diving-suit-will-rival-anything-youve-ever-seen-in-the-movies/
 * https://www.mmegi.bw/ampArticle/181422
 * https://www.rbth.com/arts/2016/10/03/kolomna-aerograd-why-are-foreigners-coming-to-russia-to-parachute_635395
 * https://parabolicarc.com/2011/07/15/suborbital-skydiver-to-jump-from-interobital-systems-rocket/
 * https://brujulea.net/en/places-empuriabrava
 * https://nolimitsskydiving.com/2014/07/
 * https://sportsshow.net/extreme-sports-that-can-get-you-killed/
 * https://thespaceshow.com/guest/olav-zipser
 * https://www.koyn.com/CloudDancer/articles/ChiSPGA.html
 * Quadtripplea (talk) 14:53, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * There are mentions of him, but we need things that meet WP:SIGCOV, i.e in-depth coverage (that's independent and reliable). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 16:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - How is "recognized by the Olympic committee", a "fringe sport"? - jc37 12:24, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * exactly
 * KEEP Quadtripplea (talk) 11:59, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I would urge anyone defending this article to follow the advice at WP:THREE. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Top Three
 * https://ukparachuting.co.uk/history-freeflying-olav-zipser/
 * https://britishskydiving.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/197-2000-3.pdf - Page 12 - 17
 * https://britishskydiving.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/189-1999-1.pdf - Page 7
 * Plus numerous mentions in published books
 * https://www.google.pt/search?q=olav+zipser+skydive&hl=en&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALiCzsYDuI905oUGR8sqTEJhQS9WcEk-0w%3A1669902430913&ei=XrCIY66nN8-KkdUP--Oj8A4&ved=0ahUKEwiuztCpx9j7AhVPRaQEHfvxCO4Q4dUDCAk&uact=5&oq=olav+zipser+skydive&gs_lcp=Cg1nd3Mtd2l6LWJvb2tzEANQ0ARYiwxglA5oAHAAeACAAbABiAHlCZIBAzAuOZgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-books Quadtripplea (talk) 11:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV imo. Not entirely convinced combining all those sources = meeting GNG. @User:Jc37 can you please clarify your comment? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure. FreeFlying did appear as a specific event in the World Games (which is "...governed by the International World Games Association, under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee").
 * seen here
 * All that said, looking things over, I think The First School of Modern SkyFlying could probably be merged to Olav Zipser. - jc37 02:47, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jc37 Isn't this an argument for the notability of freeflying and not this individual? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:04, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Regarding notability of the individual, see TOP THREE reply above. Quadtripplea (talk) 11:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The World Games are not run by the IOC. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I looked and I repeat: the coverage is mostly about the activity, with him being mentioned on a sidelines. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:51, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * a respected and well documented individual credited with being the founder of an official FAI recognised skydiving disipline, with a Sports Emmy to his name...
 * What more do you need to be worthy exactly? Quadtripplea (talk) 07:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Two articles about him, not WP:INTERVIEWs, that meet WP:SIGCOV and are published by a reliable, independent party. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:49, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * refer to numerous mentions in published books link above Quadtripplea (talk) 16:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Numerous mentions don't satisfy WP:SIGCOV, which requires in-depth coverage. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I argue there is enough coverage to warrant a Wikipedia article, add to that Sports Emmy Winning.
 * Keep. Quadtripplea (talk) 11:00, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment would his Emmy not make him notable? Oaktree b (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. This is not The Emmy Awards, but the offshoot Sports Emmy Awards. For example, would a Sports Emmy for Outstanding On-Air Sports Personality in Spanish really confer notability? Clarityfiend (talk) 02:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:38, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep:Yes, the Emmy (and more) makes him notable; a concern is how the article was written which can be addressed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flibbertigibbets (talk • contribs)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete, my view is that the sources presented above do not provide in-depth coverage of Zipser himself to provide notability per our guidelines. The sources are in-depth, yes, but on the sport - with Zipser only getting passing mentions. Daniel (talk) 07:58, 29 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.