Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Olympias (sister of Praetorian prefect Seleucus)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Seleucus (son of Ablabius). Content can be merged from history, but it seems that all that's known about her is already there.  Sandstein  11:40, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Olympias (sister of Praetorian prefect Seleucus)

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Deprodded with empty reasoning as usual. I couldn't find anything even remotely constituting significant coverage. She lacks an entry even in the basic PLRE (she doesn't even appear on the family tree in p. 1132), and it's hard to find anything at all since search results are all about her aunt, Saint Olympias, or her great-aunt, Olympias of Armenia. She does seem to have existed, but even the article creator himself had trouble finding anything good, to judge by his edit summary ("new article and unfortunately couldn't find anymore information on her"). I admittedly cannot access the sources in the article, but they presumably go no further than simply stating family relationships (failing WP:NOTGENEALOGY). Finally, the article itself asserts its subject's non-notability: "Unfortunately little is known of the life of Olympias". The title itself seems an implausible redirect or search term. Avilich (talk) 03:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Avilich (talk) 03:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Avilich (talk) 03:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith (talk) 03:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Weak keep; this is a period of remote history in which record-keeping was patchy. That someone's name is even remembered 1500 years later suggests they may have had some importance in their time. We can either help our readers by summarising honestly the current state of knowledge, or we can wash our hands of it, declaring that what little there is to know, is not worth knowing. I think the former approach more helpful. And I also think it's bad practice to delete articles where sources exist, but no one involved in the deletion process has actually looked at them. Elemimele (talk) 06:37, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I did find some sources aside from those in the article, and they go no further than including the subject in a family tree or stating the family relationship in the text. See also wp:burden WP:ONUS. Avilich (talk) 12:01, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:BURDEN is not relevant here, as we are not arguing about whether the subject is verifiable; that has been conceded. This is a deletion discussion, and the question is what to do with the contents of the article.  As a matter of professionalism, however, one should not first determine that reliable sources exist, and then attempt to shift the burden onto other editors to identify, locate, and incorporate them into the article in order to prevent you from deleting it.  Strictly speaking you do not have to add them yourself, but if you know that reliable sources exist, then you cannot justifiably delete the article because they have not been added to it.  You can, however, merge the article into others and change this title into a redirect if there does not appear to be a compelling reason to keep it as a stand-alone article.  That would be much faster, and avoid the need to have this discussion in the first place.  If anyone objected, they could of course start such a discussion or re-create the article, but I don't imagine that would tend to happen in articles such as this, provided that the subject is adequately covered elsewhere and can be readily located.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As the nominator I'm supposed to do a reasonably diligent WP:BEFORE, which is what I did. BURDEN is the wrong one, I should've posted WP:ONUS. Avilich (talk) 01:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge into the articles about the notable persons to whom she's related. The argument that anyone from antiquity about whose name has been passed down to us remains strong, and the fact that notable persons from antiquity had families we know about is relevant to their own articles.  If there's nothing further notable about the subject, however, there's no point in a stand-alone article.  The merging process involves only a couple of steps and can be done easily: 1) make sure that the subject is mentioned and adequately sourced in the related articles about notable persons, where one would expect her to be mentioned; 2) change this article into a redirect for the most appropriate location, perhaps the Seleucus referred to.  That preserves the page history should anyone need to see what was done here in the past, including this discussion.  In the event that the article is recreated in the future, there will be a record to examine.  Possibly the redirect could be moved to a better title, i.e. "Olympias (sister of Praetorian prefect Seleucus)" that would make it easier for people to find the right article.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:00, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd have no objection to a merge; seems a very sensible, pragmatic approach. Elemimele (talk) 12:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge or redirect to Seleceus. I see nothing about her that is notable.  No doubt there is (or should be) a disambiguation page which will need to be altered point to this seleuceus.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:42, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge or redirect to Seleceus. 4meter4 (talk) 00:52, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Seleucus (son of Ablabius). "Unfortunately little is known of the life of Olympias." Except she was related to someone who was notable - but notability is not inherited. Ifnord (talk) 01:34, 28 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.