Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Omar 'OJ' Koroma


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep as he now passes WP:ATHLETE (though this in no way validates the keep !votes made before he actually played, which were WP:CRYSTAL violations). пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  17:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Omar &

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Player fails notability at WP:ATHLETE having never played in a fully-professional league/competition Hubschrauber729 (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * he played at Hawks Banjul Football Club, a club in the highest league of the Country. They ended the Season 2007/08 at third. It's enough? --Atamari (talk) 19:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, is the Gambian league professional? Second, where is this information that he even played for them? Hubschrauber729 (talk) 20:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Source1 Source2 Source3 (also he played at GPA, another club in the highest league) Source4 --Atamari (talk) 20:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Those sources don't prove that he actually made an appearance. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ... they call him as "Gambian star" and you dont believe it the he made an appearance? --Atamari (talk) 20:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: they actually call him a [starlet, whatever that means. [[User:Ottre|Ottre]] (talk) 21:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * in the german Wikipedia is the relevant criterion reached when a player the highest national league play. Is the english

Wikipedia tougher? --Atamari (talk) 20:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that he played at the highest level, that is what I am trying to say. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 20:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now I see a difference between player and club. (german wikipedia rules:) Each national club at the highest league is relevant, but the players only in professional league. sorry. I myself write only articles (in german wikipedia) about players in the nationalteam are/were. --Atamari (talk) 21:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Playing at the highest level does not necessarily confer notability. The league has to be fully professional. Ban  Ray  21:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - No evidence that this player has ever played at a notable level of football. – PeeJay 20:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - This article has now been moved to Omar Alieu Koroma. – PeeJay 20:12, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Due to the BBC articles. According to Norwich City Football Club, he is on a professional team.-Inzweep (talk) 20:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment He's yet to make an appearance though and until then he's not notable. Ban  Ray  21:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but according to the original argument, the athlete wasn't notable because he hasn't played in a professional league. There's plenty of sources and inclinations that he will remain on the roster.-Inzweep (talk) 22:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep - Bill Clinton is yet to make an appearance failing WP:ATHLETE, but we're not deleting him! Koroma clearly meets WP:N with a BBC article like which notes that he is has been loaned to Norwich City "to gain first team experience with Norwich".  There is little point in completing an AfD on him next Friday, and then having to restore the article after Norwich City play on Saturday. Nfitz (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Are any of you familiar with this: WikiProject Football/Notability??? He might have been at a professional club, but there is no evidence that he actually played a game for them. And your comment about Bill Clinton makes no sense. Please elaborate on my talke page if you want. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 21:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - but not until after Saturday. As it currently stands I think he (just) fails the notability guidelines as both the BBC and SkySports sources pretty much just say he's been signed by Norwich and a couple of quotes which I don't think is enough to pass WP:N.  That said if the result of this discussion is to delete there seems no point in doing so until Sunday to see if he does play in a profesional game and so then passes notability.  If he does it's only going to create extra work for people if the article has already been deleted. Dpmuk (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a lot more references than the usual BBC Sport or SkySports pieces. How about this one in the in the Paris newspaper Le Monde. Doesn't "Norwich devrait accueillir le joueur gambien." say enough for both WP:N and WP:ATHLETE? As far as delete on Saturday - I'd be comfortable if he was given a fortnight (assuming consensus is that he doesn't meet WP:N, rather than just one game. Nfitz (talk) 22:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - currently fails WP:ATHLETE; recreate when/if he makes an appearance in a fully-pro league. GiantSnowman 10:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 10:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

this is ridiculous, so many players that have entries on this website have only played at semi-professional level, there are some entries of footballers that have only played for top teams youth teams. he'll get into the norwich first team at some point this season. stop being antagonistic and pedantic and do something useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.237.252 (talk) 10:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:ATHLETE. Recreate if he makes his an appearance for in a fully-professional league/competition. Being in a squad does not make a player notable. --Jimbo[online] 13:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - The player is highly likely to make his first professional appearance for Norwich City this coming Saturday. Seems pointless to delete in the meantime creating extra work. NCFCQ (talk) 13:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment highly likely is not a definate, keeping him on such basis would be cystal balling. --Jimbo[online] 20:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Highly likely is not cystal balling' I've pointed this out to you before. Please do not mislead people. The standard is "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place.". Highly likely is almost certain. You can argue whether or not the event is actually "highly likely" but you can't claim that "highly likely" in a few days time is cystal balling. Nfitz (talk) 21:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Highly likely is not a definate without proof. --Jimbo[online] 12:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems my crystal ball worked on this occasion! This discussion is surely irrelevant now. NCFCQ (talk) 16:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete as this fails WP:ATHLETE at the current time - it takes very little effort to restore the page when and if he makes his debut (which would, of course, void this discussion). We seem to be having this discussion a lot recently. The notability criteria are quite clear I think - whether they are right or not should be a separate discussion. Rje (talk) 18:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I change my !vote as this now passes WP:ATHLETE. I do, however, stand by my original statement - youth players are not notable, and we have to draw a line somewhere. I am not really convinced that all players who have ever played a professional sport are inherently notable, but this is why we have policies to facilitate discussions that would otherwise be based solely on opinion. Rje (talk) 17:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree, it takes a lot of effort. First one has to find an Admin - I've been waiting now for weeks for one to respond to me on one issue. Then one has to convince them. Deleting an article we all know will exist shortly, is WP:BURO and your solution violates both the third and fifth pillar of Wikipedia. Nfitz (talk) 21:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am an admin and I would require no convincing when and if he makes his professional debut, saying that "he might" or "he will" is not enough, however, and is contrary to WP:CRYSTAL and WP:AADD. Your citation of WP:BURO and the five pillars, while accurate, is more than a little specious, it could be used to justify anarchy or merely denounce anything you just happen not to agree with. WP:ATHLETE sets a clear minimum criteria for articles about sportspeople, I see no reason to disregard it here without an RfC - I simply don't consider youth footballers to be notable, whatever their "potential", and a single professional game, as stated by WP:ATHLETE, should be the absolute minimum requirement for an article. Rje (talk) 22:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No one has said he might. Saying he will does not violate WP:CRYSTAL. Please don't mispresent the policy. Nfitz (talk) 23:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CRYSTAL, I believe that one can say that the 2008 Olympics will take place or that High School Musical 3 will be released. Signing a player, and especially a young player, on loan does not necessarily guarantee that he will play. It is clear that I have a strict interpretation of "Avoid predicted sports team line-ups, which are inherently unverifiable and speculative." and you do not. I am disagreeing with you, but I think both of our interpretations are entirely legitimate. Like many Wikipedia policies - although perhaps not WP:ATHLETE - there is plenty of room for plurality of interpretation. Rje (talk) 23:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In this case though, we have a BBC article - - that indicates that he is in Norwich to get first team experience. So we know he'll be playing, long before High School Musical 3 taints the silver screen - assuming that something dreadful doesn't happen like Koroma getting in a sex scandal with Vanessa Hudgens. Nfitz (talk) 06:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I do actually have some sympathy with your argument, which is why I didn't mention CRYSTAL in my initial statement. My problem is that WP:ATHLETE is clear and succinct - you are notable if you play - whereas entering the realm of the hypothetical is not. Even though there is legitimate reason to think that this player will play at some point - although I would hesitate to suggest that it is a certainty, because nothing in football is - I really don't like the grey area that it would introduce into these discussions. It is much easier to talk about whether a player has played or not than it is to come to a decision about the likelihood of him playing or not. CRYSTAL is a clumsy weapon to be sure, but it is much easier than having irresolvable, hypothetical arguments. Rje (talk) 16:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak delete Whilst the article clearly fails notability for WP:ATHLETE I would be tempted to use some WP:COMMONSENSE and wait until Saturday. Rambo's Revenge (talk)  11:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Restore if/when he makes a debut for a professional side. – LATICS   talk  04:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete The BBC claim that he's going to Norwich to gain first team play isn't enough for me. Notability isn't temporary, and as of now he's not notable.  If tomorrow he got injured and couldn't play football anymore, and had no chance of ever playing, he wouldn't be notable.  That's different than the High School Musical 3 case, where, if tomorrow Disney announced that they weren't releasing the film, or something else similar happened, the film would still be notable.  If he ever does make a professional debut, which, football being football is far from certain, the article is easy to recreate.  Ask on the Footy project with "this person now has a professional debut, could you recreate the article?" and I'm sure you'll get a friendly admin to recreate it.  Heck, if you're afraid, ask me and I'll ask an admin.  We're not a crysal ball, and as of now, he's not notable. Vickser (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh look now he's notable - 1st game 9/8/8 v Coventry City - ****ing retards--86.145.2.101 (talk) 16:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment He has now indeed played in the Football League Championship, meaning he now passes WP:BIO. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Passes WP:N and WP:BIO. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.