Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/One Who Walks with the Stars


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Later participation broadly agrees that the expansion and sourcing of the article (which took place after most delete !votes) is sufficient to demonstrate notability. ~ mazca  talk 23:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

One Who Walks with the Stars

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Fails WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO. Unable to locate any significant biographical details in secondary sources. The article suggests this person is notable for one event. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:39, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:39, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:39, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 14:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 14:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)


 * delete No more notable than anyone else in Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn: A Biographical Dictionary of Sioux, Cheyenne and United States Military Personnel.Slatersteven (talk) 14:02, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Her role as a woman fighting in the Battle of Little Bighorn, one of the most significant events in the Indian Wars, is notable. Not sure what other white standards you need from her considering white American women weren't even allow to own property, vote, have a job etc at the time she was outperforming her war leader husband in battle per Custer's Fall by David Humphreys Miller (1957), pp.156-8. Found copied here for those without access to the book.  on camera  05:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete There is not enough sourcing (or information) to meet notability guidelines. We know this about her: she was married to a Native American leader (who is notable), and she reportedly killed two soldiers at the Battle of Little Bighorn. That's it. This does not warrant a standalone article. This is a WP:ONEEVENT person who's article would be in permastub status for the rest of its existence. Either merge her to her husband's article or the article on the battle itself if what she did in that battle was really of much interest, or simply delete. -Indy beetle (talk) 05:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete not seeing SIGCOV in multiple RS to satisfy WP:GNG. Mztourist (talk) 07:54, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:30, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:30, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Montana-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith (talk) 14:44, 27 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - I'm going to say keep on this article. I've added a citation to a 2-page entry in a book, bringing the number of citations to four. It would be a shame to let this notable woman who battled Custer's soldiers slip through the cracks of history. Netherzone (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2020 (UTC).. Update: I've added a few more citations, bringing the total to seven. What is problematic in finding info on her is that she was known by at least three names. In one of the citations she's not in the index at all, but when I looked up her husband, Crow Dog, it mentions that altho he did not kill anyone in the battle, she was known to have killed two. Also, I happen to have the book Custer's Fall: The Indian Side of the Story by David Humphreys Miller in my home library where she is covered in pages 156-158, including a line-drawn illustration. I have numerous books on Native American history and ledger book drawings however many of them do not have indexes, so the going is slow, since I'm manually looking (page by page) for her under three name variations, as well as her husband's name. Netherzone (talk) 20:05, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You added another citation supporting that she participated in the battle. Is there anything else she is notable for? Magnolia677 (talk) 18:59, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Fighting and killing your enemies in battle was one of the highest achievements in Lakota traditional life. Even moreso for a woman. Even by white standards, this is a significant battle she fought in.  on camera  22:03, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Netherzone I don't regard any of the citations that you have added as anything more than passing references and they certainly don't amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS. Lone Eagle, the White Sioux states "there was at least one woman warrior among the Indians who took an active part in the battle against Custer and his men. She was One-who-walks-with-the-stars, a young woman warrior. Crow Dog husband of One-who-walks-with-the-stars..." You have quoted in full all that Landmark Events in Native American History: Little Big Horn, Winning the Battle, Losing the War says about her: "Although Crow Dog did not kill anyone during the battle, his wife, One-Who-Walks-with-the-Stars, killed two soldiers who were attempting to swim across the river." I don't see where she is mentioned in "Native Americans & Little Big Horn~Sioux Treaty of 1868 - Stories" and the page seems to be largely self-published by a bgill with some documents and pictures. I can't access Lakota Recollections of the Custer Fight and request that you post all that is written about her.Mztourist (talk) 06:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)


 * In Native Am & LBH-Sioux Treaty of 1868, she is mentioned in the section/chapter Sioux Participants in the battle of LBH, where it states: "One-Who-Walks-With-the-Stars, young Oglala woman, wife of Crow Dog; while rounding up stray horses on the banks of the river, she slashed and clubbed 2 soldiers who had escaped the Custer battlefield and were attempting to swim the river (25)." You may have better luck searching her using variations of her name, including indigenous names if known; it is useful whenever researching women. Women have often been written about in association their relationships, such as "wife of so-and-so, or daughter of so-and-so, or mother of so-and-so. Sometimes their name is unimportant or unknown to the writer because of womens' "lower" status. For example, in the Landmark Events book, I found her not by searching her name, but by searching her husbands name. Another example to clarify: in Chapter LIV of "History of South Dakota" by Doane Robinson, Vol. I (1904), and also Wilcolmb E. Washburn's The Historical Problems of American Indian Legal Problems, mentions her without using her name at all, but rather as "wife of Crow Dog". Historical systemic biases have made it much more difficult to research women, especially those who lived before the 20th C. (and the emergence of technologies such as computers, internet, etc) and perhaps also for those with non-Anglo names. See essay WP:BIAS, and also the section on Relationships in WP:WAW may also be helpful.    Netherzone (talk) 13:32, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Netherzone it doesn't amount to SIGCOV. It just confirms the same thing, she was Crow Dog's wife and attacked or killed two soldiers. We have no substantive biographical details about her.Mztourist (talk) 06:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for sharing your opinion, however, I stand by my !vote. Netherzone (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep for reasons cited by camera and Netherzone. Article and references have been substantially improved from what they were when nominated for deletion. WP:HEY. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 19:43, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. Article and references have been substantially improved from what they were and hopefully more will continue to be added. <span style="font-family:Courier New, Courier, monospace;"> // Timothy ::  talk  18:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Oncamera makes a strong case.  D r e a m Focus  22:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin: if this is looking like a delete, please wait another week to close as I'm gathering sources for the subject and others from my local library. Thanks. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 15:08, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per and, who have stated the case better than I could. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:11, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep based on what I have seen added as sources. Though she is notable based on the sources I do caution one thing. Indigenous women doing things like this were probably more common than thought of. It's a concept that is fairly new to Euro-American society, relatively speaking, but is not exclusive. There have been strong and courageous women in every culture even if their stories were suppressed by the male dominated ethos at the time.Tsistunagiska (talk) 20:28, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge with redirect to Battle of the Little Bighorn - All the sources put forward so far are about the Battle of Little Big Horn, and they briefly mention the article subject and her role in that battle. I think, as a matter of notability, she would pass WP:1E because her role in the event is significant (enough to have been noted in multiple RS), but we have almost no information on her whatsoever, except her two confirmed kills in the battle. In any war, for any soldier, if the only thing we knew about the soldier is that they had confirmed kills in a battle, we would redirect the soldier's name to the article about the battle, and include the content there. We should do the same here; the reader is best served by reading about her two kills in the article about the battle. The redirect can always be expanded into a proper biography is more sources are found. Lev!vich 21:36, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets GNG. Netherzone is a careful !voter and I am please that they have done some research here to show that this person meets WP:N. WP:NOTPAPER Lightburst (talk) 23:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.