Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orbital (The Culture) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Culture. Tone 22:51, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Orbital (The Culture)
AfDs for this article: 
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This is pretty well referenced, and to quality sources as well, but the problem is that it is still 100% WP:PLOT (and I think some people may need a refresher: "[Wikipedia should treat] works of art or fiction, video games, documentaries, research books or papers, and religious texts) in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the development, design, reception, significance, and influence of works in addition to concise summaries of those works"). If a plot element is summarized in an academic paper or book, it still is just a plot element that doesn't go beyond the "concise summary" and if there is nothing else we can write about a topic that is not a said "concise summary", it does not warrant an article here. For example, The Science Fiction Handbook, a reliable academic source, just says in essence that 'space stations are a common trope in many works of science fiction, including in x, y, z, and this one'. I don't think it means that Wikipedia needs a stand-alone article for each and every fictional space station (or a type of them) out there. As such, I think that the article on space station may merit an 'in fiction' section where some examples are given and Banks's orbitals are mentioned, but I don't think they are merit a stand-alone article (fails WP:NFICTION, WP:GNG). Coverage of this concept is effectively in passing and not in depth (limited to plot summaries). On a final note, this article's references contain quotations, so it is very easy to judge the extent to which this topic is discussed in them, and it is pretty clear there is no analysis of the literary significance of this concept that goes beyond 'Banks The Culture universe has big space stations called Orbitals'. This is not an encyclopedic topic. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep WP:ALLPLOT is not a WP:DELREASON if the article can be improved so as not to be an all-plot summary, which I believe it has. If this many edits by this many accounts have improved the article this many times over 17 years, then it has some merit. Also this is the second attempt to cull the article and the first one failed.  I will admit to an wikipedia inclusionist bias for full disclosure.Timmccloud (talk) 18:06, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Which parts of the article go beyond PLOT? The sentence that states that someone has compared Banks space stations to the ones in Halo games...? I don't see much else. Hence the failures in NFICTION/GNG, which the op noted and you did not address yet... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:12, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: Sponsor said this was included in list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions and it was NOT Included.  I have performed this oversight. Timmccloud (talk) 18:06, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ALSO This discussion has been included in the WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature and the WikiProject Deletion sorting/Fictional elements.  Timmccloud (talk) 18:15, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge/Redirect to The Culture. Not individually notable, though articles like this suggest that the fictional civilization as a whole might be.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:27, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge/Redirect to The Culture Merge seems appropriate given the importance of Orbitals in The Culture.--GCUgreyarea (talk) 06:55, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect - The current sources are trivial. The real world information is basically just passing mentions. TTN (talk) 01:06, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails NFICTION/GNG. Not significant, pure PLOT. Kacper IV (talk) 09:22, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per nom "This is pretty well referenced, and to quality sources as well". But seriously: the subject is discussed in a wide range of quality sources, which could satisfy WP:GNG, and which demonstrate that its significance extends beyond in-world "fancruft", viz, that it was an inspiration for structures in the video game Halo, which have their own article. Additionally, the nominator has not shown what exactly has changed since the last AfD which resulted in the article being kept. 141.168.108.104 (talk) 07:42, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge/Redirect to The Culture - per above. As stated, the concept does not appear to have the sources to indicate independent notability, but should be included in the main article on the setting.  Its already covered briefly in that article already, so I am not sure how much actually needs to be merged, but its edit history will be here for people to reference if that needs to be done.  Rorshacma (talk) 15:42, 27 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.