Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Origen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Stifle (talk) 08:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Origen

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Forgive me if this is the incorrect forum for this; I couldn't think of where else to bring it. A user recently moved Origen to Origen of Alexandria, and replaced the original page with a disambiguation that's basically a collection of spam links without Wikipedia pages. Origen of Alexandria is by far the primary person people are going to be looking for when they type "Origen", and I don't know how to move the article back without deleting the new disambiguation page at Origen. Ford MF (talk) 14:39, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Move to Origen (disambiguation) after removing the spam, and convert Origen into a redirect page. Nyttend (talk) 14:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why redirect, exactly? It's bad style to disambiguate Origen in the title when there's an obviously major figure associated with the name.  There is no other figure equally recognized as simply "Origen".  For example, there are other Normandies, but that doesn't mean we disambiguate it to "Normandy, France", because basically everyone looking for Normandy is looking for Normandy.  We have Normandy (disambiguation) for all the other, far less closely associated Normandies.  Ford MF (talk) 14:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * See also: Disambiguation. Ford MF (talk) 14:57, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Please have a look at the "Modern Uses of the Name" that have been on the original Origen page (no pun intended!) for as long as I can remember... Are they really links to spam? In any case, there are two ancient Origens in addition to the one of Alexandria. --Dampinograaf (talk) 15:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but compared to the church father Origen, Origen the Pagan and Adamantius are extremely minor figures (I know; I'm the one who created the latter article in the first place). And again, see the relevant guideline.  Cheers.  Ford MF (talk) 16:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is that this isn't the place to decide what to do with the ancient theologian that most people think of as Origen, as his article plainly isn't up for deletion; given that the current format is that the theologian is at OofA, I proposed redirecting this article there, rather than altogether deleting the title. Assuming that nobody here believes that Origen should be a red link, we're simply deciding what to do with that title, and I'm simply stating what I think should be done with it in relation to other articles.  Nyttend (talk) 18:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's fine, but per our fairly explicit and unambiguous style guidelines, disambiguated articles that shouldn't be disambiguated are bad style. The Origen of Alexandria article should be moved to Origen, not a redirect from it, and the only way to do that is to delete the Origen linkfarm first.  Ford MF (talk) 19:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, but that's a matter for the theologian's talk page, not AFD. And deletion for housekeeping reasons is not a matter for AFD: take this to Requested moves, and if the theologian is agreed to be moved back to Origen, the moving administrator will have authority to speedy delete pages for housekeeping purposes (see CSD #G6.  Nyttend (talk) 13:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Move the current content at Origen of Alexandria to Origen, and the current content at Origen to Origen (disambiguation). Then tidy up the external links for potential spamminess. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete this page to get rid of the farm of external links, and move Origen of Alexandria back to this name. If there's need for a dab page, create a proper one afresh. Deor (talk) 16:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per Deor above. I agree, the current Origen of Alexandria article is the one people want when searching. Create a proper dab for the non-spam links in the current page, and of course, move the O of A article back to its proper title. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  18:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Move to Origen (disambiguation) — there are four articles here (Origen of Alexandria, Origen the Pagan, Origen (Spanish Rock Band) and Adamantius), and that's just enough for a disambiguation page. Likewise, Origen of Alexandria, the best-known Origen by far, should be moved back to Origen. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 22:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Links on disambiguation pages should only be to articles that exist on Wikipedia. To use a disambiguation page to link to external websites is spamming.  I almost removed all of the non-article links on that page, but I hesitated and came here first.  I will, however, if this so-called disambiguation page is not deleted.   Little Red Riding Hood  talk  22:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It will, one hopes, be shortly SNOWed. There doesn't seem to be much, if any, real resistance to the idea.  I'd have just gone ahead and deleted it myself on WP:MOS grounds, but I don't have the deletion tools.  Ford MF (talk) 23:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've removed the external links.  Little Red Riding Hood  talk  05:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. These are external links and nn.Student7 (talk) 01:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

About the move
Please refer to Talk:Origen where my move is explained - in case you missed it :) Dampinograaf (talk) 01:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer to keep the discussion here, myself. I think you've missed an important point; many more notable people have been called Augustine or Clemens/Clement than have been called Origen. This strongly affects the question of whether the path of least astonishment leads to Origen of Alexandria in this case. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.