Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Our Lady of Sorrows School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Hamilton Township, Mercer County, New Jersey. The Bushranger One ping only 01:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Our Lady of Sorrows School

 * – ( View AfD View log )

K-8 school with no sources. Notability isn't established; certainly not to the level of keeping the article  Purpleback pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  14:42, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions.  Purpleback  pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  17:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  Purpleback  pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  17:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep because all schools are notable, especially secondary schools such as those that provide high and junior high, and the fact that this user has a pattern of mass nominating articles that are all kept. Like most restaurants schools have sources on the that cover them in depth but they are hard to find as per WP:NRVE we should wait on them to come together or merge with the diocese but that would prevent organic growth.LuciferWildCat (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Three points:
 * Precedent says that not all schools are notable; most K-8 schools ain't (this school, like many Catholic schools, is a K-8 school)
 * (the most important one) How can something be notable if it has no sources?
 * This user's vote, accusing me of mass nominating articles, is inaccurate, irrelevant, and borderline PA

 Purpleback pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  22:52, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This use has in fact mass nominated articles and it is very accurate, it is not an accusation it is a plain fact that can be seen here Many things have no sources in the article itself but that does not mean that they do not exist.LuciferWildCat (talk) 22:45, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Hamilton Township or the Diocese of Trenton (not sure which of those is standing on WP currently) per standard policy for non-notable elementary schools. Carrite (talk) 00:34, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Carrite. Nothing here to show this school satisfies WP:ORG. It is not the consensus at AFD, at WP:N or at WP:ORG that every grade school is notable. Edison (talk) 00:40, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment (ec) - Okay, PBP and LWC, I know where you're both coming from. Let's just give this feud a miss, shall we? PBP jumped into life at AfD with a blast of nominations of minor politicians a couple weeks ago. Some of the pieces failed to meet GNG, some did not, it was a mixed bag. I objected to the process, PBP and I bumped heads, hopefully that's done. LWC invested time in the defenses. Both of you felt too much "ownership" about the process. Let it go. I think in retrospect that PBP made a few newbie mistakes in terms of procedure and that I phrased my objection too harshly; he took offense to my taking offense, hopefully that's done. Making every single move of the other a mini battleground is not going to resolve anything. It's factionalizing and disruptive. Knock it off. There is a long history of school nominations at AfD. A rough working consensus has emerged: elementary schools have two strikes against them and a big strikezone coming to the plate; they must be truly exceptional to make the cut. Secondary schools are, more or less, presumed to be notable if their existence can be verified on the principle that (a) reliable sources are undoubtedly out there; (b) it is undesirable to have a bunch of redlinks for high schools showing in biographies. A properly-written and exhaustive biography is apt to include detail about the high school down to its name, while there is no such expectation for primary schools. Further (c) high school sports, drama, band activities, etc. are generally covered in the press. There is more sourcing available and more to write about. Elementary school pieces are nothing more than lists of teachers and school buildings and maybe the Thursday lunch menu. This big "rule of thumb" — that 98% or so of elementary school pieces are going to be redirected, while close to 100% of secondary school pieces are kept — HELPS Wikipedia. There are probably hundreds of thousands of schools around the world. We don't want to endlessly wage deletionist v. inclusionist wars over this, with crap articles about elementary schools springing up like mushrooms on the one hand, with lengthy, draining, time wasting struggles to find extant sources for legit pieces about high schools on the other. Those who want a focused encyclopedia can take solace that the multitude of crap articles on elementary schools sourced to the Smalltown Crier are gone; those who want an expansive and comprehensive encyclopedia can take solace that they won't have to invest four hours every day fighting to defend mass nominations of stub articles about high schools. It's a compromise that works, no matter what Jimmy Wales thinks about it. I hope you understand this consensus that has emerged over the years and come to accept and support it, both of you. Now, this is a K though 8 — so redirect! Carrite (talk) 00:52, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What you've said is pretty much OK, Carrite, except for the newbie business. I've been active here for over 3 yrs, and have 8K edits to my name.  The reason the Richmond City Council AfDs were a tad slapdash is I expected them to be quite uncontroversial (much as I excepted this to be, non-sourced article about generally non-notable topic seems low-hanging fruit), not because I'm a n00b  Purpleback  pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  02:42, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a noob to the project, obviously, but first AfDs (unless I missed something in your history). Peace. Carrite (talk) 07:52, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Hamilton Township, Mercer County, New Jersey according  to  established procedure for non -notable primary/elementary/middle schools to  article about  school  district or locality. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Redirect to the diocese. No indication here of any particular notability. I dont think Luciferwc understands the way we use the term "notability" to refer to schools. Of course this school exists, and is notable for all the families whose children attend. for that reason, the school undoubtedly deserves a full write up on a web page (not here) devoted to that school district or county or parish. Carrite is correct, we drew the line a while back, for a whole load of reasons, and this is the consensus. Most k-8 dont make it. I have redirected or AFD'd k-8 schools in my area to actually IMPROVE overall education coverage, as their existence shows a lack of attention to proper sourcing, and makes the county/cities article groups smack of boosterism, which pulls the whole suite of articles down. the redirect article can have a fair amount added if editors are bold enough, as long as its not promotional and is not ephemeral (we really dont need lots of sections of school district articles with out of date principal names, which are not that important anyway)Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * NOTE to closer. If this AfD is closed as 'redirect', please remember to  include the  template on  the redirect  page. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect -- as we generally do with schools junior to high schools.--Epeefleche (talk) 23:29, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Somewhat notable institution, but cannot warrant its own article without reliable sources. If kept, make sure we disambiguate Hamilton Twp, Mercer County, NJ (actually put in Mercer County) in the lead sentence. Tinton5 (talk) 02:00, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * How can it be "somewhat notable" if it has no sources at all? Furthermore, a "keep" vote amounts to ignoring precedent on elementary schools  Purpleback  pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  14:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.