Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outward postcode list


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to List_of_postcode_districts_in_the_United_Kingdom. I'm unsure that this is a deletion issue. There seems to be agreement that neither list is optimal at the moment, so I am closing this as a tentative Merge in order that involved editors can work on it. If some sort of a merge takes place then this article can be redirected to the other (or vice versa), but would not be deleted anyway in order to keep attribution. Black Kite 15:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Outward postcode list

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Content fork of existing List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom article. MRSC (talk) 18:15, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Seeking clarification: A few days ago I started a discussion at Talk:List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom relating to Outward postcode list, proposing that it be reverted to a redirect to List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom but also seeking to make progress on the layout of List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom and related pages. Is the AfD proposal actually for deletion or simply for reinstating the redirect (which I would support) and, if the latter, is an AfD appropriate? "Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD." On the face of it, a restored redirect would seem to be more useful than a missing page. If necessary, we could transclude to move the existing discussion to this page, or redirect/cross-ref from here to the existing discussion. The Talk page discussion is already cross-referenced on the Talk pages of some closely related articles. – Richardguk (talk) 19:44, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried redirecting and was reverted. Instead of edit warring with an anon IP it is better to go via this route. I would note there is no need for a redirect as the article has no inbound links and its title is somewhat unclear. List of postcode district outward codes might be worth creating as a redirect to the existing postcode district list, but this can be deleted. Additionally the list contains numerous errors and has no sources. MRSC (talk) 20:28, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I wonder whether a single revert is a bit limited to classify as an edit war. Certainly the revert was misguided, and certainly deleting the page would help to prevent future reverts (though would not guarantee the creation of forks by other means). Perhaps, if no one objects during the AfD process, we could conclude by reapplying the revert with a suitable explanatory note, instead of deleting the page itself at this stage, and then wait to see whether more permanent measures are justified? It is possible that the page has external links and is on watch lists so there may be a potential advantage in channelling these to the correct page. (Re: List of postcode district outward codes, seems unlikely anyone would ever guess at that page name so no need to create that article IMHO.) — Richardguk (talk) 08:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't see any links in and to be honest external links are not reason enough to keep an article which is essentially a WP:FORK. MRSC (talk) 10:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Delete then Redirect might be more appropriate in this case? This would avoid potential edit warring as the history would be deleted and would still direct users. Would this still enable it to show up in people's watch lists? Zangar (talk) 14:25, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think in AfD discussions "Delete" is taken to mean "remove the page and its history completely and not just its current contents" (see the AfD article and the deletion glossary), so you can either Delete or Redirect but once you have deleted there is no page from which to redirect so you can't do both. Are you recommending Redirect? — Richardguk (talk) 08:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify: Delete then Redirect does mean to "remove the page and its history completely and not just its current contents", then you can set up a clean article with the same name as a redirect. This can be found under the Redirect bullet at the aforementioned deletion glossary. So at this stage I am recommending Delete then Redirect, but if the concensus is that the single revert is not enough to warrent deletion, then I'd be in favour of a Redirect. Hope this helps :) Zangar (talk) 10:46, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops, apologies for not reading the glossary properly – but thanks for putting me right so politely! I've mentioned below that having the history available might assist in refining the List of page, so I'm minded to stick with plain Revert, but accept that Delete and Redirect is preferable to a simple Delete. So we seem to have split 4 ways at present – but at least everyone has been respectful of the merits of each case! — Richardguk (talk) 10:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 19:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 19:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Not delete. There is a case for keeping this article in that this is ordered by postcode number, whilst the other article is ordered by place name . There again, that might not be be a good enough reason. Either way, this is something that is better discussed through a proposed merger, to decide which details in which articles should and shouldn't be included. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 21:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure this is the most practical option but I agree in principal to some extent, which is why I started the broader discussion at Talk:List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom prior to MRSC's creation of this AfD, though I sympathise with MRSC's reasons for starting the AfD too. I think we can make both articles better than the sum of their parts, and in fact I created a prototype article demonstrating a revised layout that is more concise and has sortable columns. Even so, the grouping of post towns by postcode area at List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom means that it is in practice not very difficult for someone searching for a particular district to find it in the alphabetical list, since districts too have areas as their parent in the hierarchy. Editors have been dabbing the Outward article since it was reverted, so any delay in deleting or redirecting it again is likely to lead editors to unwittingly waste time editing a redundant page. Also, it is not clear whether the co-ordinate data in the Outward page is open source, so there are added reasons for not deferring for a merger discussion. By putting the redirect back in place, we can take our time to reach consensus on a revised version of the List of article whilst still having the Outward page history to refer back to and without uninvolved editors getting distracted into dabbing or linking to the superfluous page. — Richardguk (talk) 08:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Redirect (but Without Prejudice to a possible future Delete): Though the previous redirect was reverted, this only happened once so there is very limited evidence so far that a delete is required; if reverts continued in future, the case for deletion would be stronger, so redirecting for now should not cause problems and is more in line of the spirit of Wikipedia in channelling rather than removing misguided and forked page names. The pages are sufficiently similar that there is no need to delay further for a separate merger discussion prior to improving the List of article. — Richardguk (talk) 08:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 16:10, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Plausible search terms should not be redlinks; "Outward postcode list" is a plausible search term for a British user; so deletion is the wrong call. But this is a content fork at present, which is not acceptable and it should be returned to the parent article.  A redirect outcome seems the only sensible course. While I was researching my !vote for this AfD, I couldn't help noticing that List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom seems not to be a sortable wikitable.  Why not?— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  17:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right that the List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom isn't sortable at the moment, there's a discussion about that here: Talk:List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom, as well as the structure of information. Zangar (talk) 07:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, thanks. I think that because of the first pillar, which says rather clearly that Wikipedia is a gazetteer as well as an encyclopaedia, we need detailed information on postcodes and postcode areas (which are, after all, geographical locations).  I also think that somewhere in Wikipedia's mainspace, there should be a single, sortable list of UK postcodes.  The one in Richardguk's userspace seems ideal, and I would certainly support putting it in the mainspace, ideally somewhere easy to find and certainly within one mouse click of whatever article you get when you search for "postcode".— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  09:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  22:05, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Redirect or delete. Outward postcode list is not a plausible search term.  Firstly Wikipedia list articles are named List of X not X list.  Secondly outward postcode is an attempt at a technical phrase not used in everyday conversation: I think the Royal Mail says a postcode has an outward part and inward part.  Two lists of the same things is undesirable and if there is a move to make the lists ordered, tat would be a great improvement. Sussexonian (talk) 23:10, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

The good thing about the list in this format is that it gives easy checking that a postal town and county is correct for a specific postcode. Providing the List of postcode districts in the United Kingdom was made sortable, merging this data with that page would make sense with further links then possible to the specific wiki-pages for each postal district —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.42.171 (talk) 14:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.