Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Owen Sussex


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  So Why  09:30, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Owen Sussex

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Doesn't appear to meet WP:NSPORT or WP:GNG, with a search returning very few results. Note that Hong Kong isn't a test-playing nation in rugby. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:39, 29 June 2017 (UTC) Cordless Larry (talk) 06:39, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Basketball-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 07:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Rugby union-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 07:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 07:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 07:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

OSTEC (talk)

Owen Sussex, was a prolific sportsman during the late 1970s and 1980s.

Owen Sussex has acheived International status in both Rugby Union and Track and Field Athletics, but additionally English County level in Basketball and Cross Country running.

This is much more notible that many existing pages which refer to, for example, English Football League Players or County level Cricketers which not only compete in a single sport but have not acheived an International status. They may be professional players but it is important to remember that Rugby Union and Track and Feild Athletics were both amateur only sports at the time - as was the Olympic Games.

Given that these acheivments were in the 1970s/80s it is not easy to find copies of Newspaper articles or similar evidence on the Internet although there maybe something from a private source.

Track and Field Athletics: Owen Sussex was also a Great Britain Junior International Athletics (Decathlon), Welsh Athletics International, English Public Schools Athletics International (Vice Captain) There can be no dispute that Great Britain Athletics, Welsh Athletics and English Public Schools athletics teams are true International Teams. Evidence that Owen Sussex was a Welsh Athletics champion in multiple events and is still listed in the Welsh Athletics all time records in the references.

Rugby Union: Owen Sussex was a Hong Kong Sevens Rugby International and Hong Kong national rugby union team (15-a-side) - this is evidenced by the attached pictures of the teams from that time. Owen Sussex was in the Hong Kong 7s team at the HK 7s for matches against Sri Lanka, New Zealand All Blacks and South Korea, and in the 15-a-side Owen Sussex was in the HK team for games against Sri Lanka and Fiji - not insignificant opposition.

Hong Kong was originally a British colony, but then a British Dependant Territory prior to 1997 and an SAR of China post 97, and fielded national teams in both 7s and 15-a-side tounaments and international test matches. Hong Kong also attends the Olympics as a National Team.

See below for Wiki extracts which indicate that Hong Kong is a true National Team that does indeed play international tests and that The Hong Kong Sevens is the standard in world class Rugby Union tournments, and not only predates but is also part of the World_Rugby_Sevens_Series and that the Hong Kong team plays in the tournament as a National Team.

Extracts From Wikipedia - reference to Hong Kong National Rugby Union teams and The HK Sevens:

/wiki/Hong_Kong_national_rugby_sevens_team

World Cup Sevens Appearances 5 (First in 1993) Best result 10th (1997) The Hong Kong national rugby sevens team is the national team representing Hong Kong in international rugby sevens tournaments. The team is a regular participant in the Rugby World Cup Sevens

/wiki/Hong_Kong_Sevens:

The Hong Kong Sevens is considered the premier tournament on the World Rugby Sevens Series competition. The Hong Kong Sevens is currently the seventh tournament on the World Series calendar (following the Canada Sevens), and is held annually in Hong Kong.

The Hong Kong Sevens were ahead of their time, and an influential force in the modernisation of rugby union, for example, the Hong Kong Sevens were one of the first rugby union tournaments to attract major sponsorship, ... They also provided a level of cosmopolitan international competition, which tended not to exist in rugby before the first Rugby World Cup in 1987. ... By 1986, the Hong Kong Sevens were held up as a positive example to others.

Bill McLaren, in his autobiography Talking of Rugby writes at length about his Hong Kong Sevens experiences: "I remember a big South Sea islander saying that, in his view, the Hong Kong sevens were really the Olympic Games of Rugby Union. Certainly, the Hong Kong event encapsulates all the really good things that the game has to offer–splendid organisation, wonderful sporting spirit, universal camaraderie, admirable field behaviour, the most enjoyable crowd participation, the chance for emergent rugby nations to lock horns with the mighty men of New Zealand, Australia, Fiji, Wales, Scotland and the Barbarians.

/wiki/World_Rugby_Sevens_Series

The World Rugby Sevens Series, known officially as the HSBC World Rugby Sevens Series due to sponsorship from banking group HSBC,[1] is an annual series of international rugby sevens tournaments run by World Rugby featuring national sevens teams. ... As of the 2015–16 season, the season's circuit consists of 10 tournaments in 10 countries, and visits five of the six populated continents. Australia, the United Arab Emirates, South Africa, New Zealand, Canada, the United States, Hong Kong, Singapore, France and England each host one event. Canada was also added.

/wiki/Rugby_union_in_Hong_Kong:

National team Hong Kong has two 15-a-side teams - men's and women's ... They have competed in the first Asian Five Nations recently.

/wiki/List_of_international_rugby_union_teams: Hong Kong is listed and ranked 24th in the world

/wiki/Hong_Kong_national_rugby_union_team: table of the representative rugby matches played by a Hong Kong national XV to 1 May 2016.: Arabian Gulf Australian Universities Belgium Brazil Canada China Chinese Taipei Czech Republic England XV Fiji France XV Germany Japan Japan XV Junior Japan Kazakhstan Kenya Kenya A Malaysia Netherlands New Zealand U–23 New Zealand Universities Norway Papua New Guinea Portugal Russia Scotland XV Singapore South Korea Sri Lanka Thailand Tunisia United Arab Emirates Uruguay United States Wales XV Zimbabwe

Ostec (talk) 20:40, 30 June 2017 (UTC)ostec  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Onel 5969  TT me 22:27, 7 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete the tons of intricate detail only known to the subject, along with the creator's concerted efforts to build this page out both in mainspace and draft plus the creator's username matching the subjects initials tell me this is autobiographical. Don't create pages about yourself and don't post walls of text to try and stop deletion of something that is better suited to the subject's blog. Legacypac (talk) 22:49, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - doesn't meet the GNG. None of the sources provided in the article come close to this - they may prove the existence of the chap but there is no suitable, in depth coverage of him and/or his achievements. Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:33, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Doesn't seem to meet WP:NRU. If he has played in the World Rugby Sevens Series, Rugby World Cup Sevens, Commonwealth Games or Olympics, he'd meet that, but I don't see any evidence or specific claim that he has. Despite claims of his skills across multiple sports, someone who achieved moderately across multiple sports is likely to be less notable than someone who did very well in one sport, unless they can meet WP:GNG - and there's no evidence he does that. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:50, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Agree requires more research to find evidence to meet the wider requirements of WP:GNG.

This is not just about Rugby Union but also Track and Field Athletics: the subject was a Great Britain Junior International Athletics (Decathlon), Welsh Athletics National Champion, Welsh Athletics International, English Public Schools Athletics International:

So for Track and Field Athletics surely already meets requirements for Amateur sports persons - College athletes WP:NHSPHSATH Having won a national award (Welsh Athletics National Champion several times, Evidenced in references) and Gained national media attention as an individual (although these needs to be evidenced)

Would also meet requirements for Amateur sports persons - High school and pre-high school athletes WP:NCOLLATH (with more evidence) --Ostec (talk) Ostec (talk) 07:01, 15 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.