Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/P.K. Firos


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Weighing the arguments below, consensus appears that the use of sources does not meet significant coverage threshold required by GNG. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 15:42, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

P.K. Firos

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Bringing again this to AFD because G4 may not might not be valid here. Some changes has been made from the previous version. This was deleted a few days back after this. The subject is only a member of the state committe of the students wing of a party. Never got electes into any legislative bodies hence fails NPOL. Recently participated in election and there is no evidence of notability as there is no sigcov thus failing GNG also.Kichu🐘 Need any help? 12:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 12:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 12:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kerala-related deletion discussions. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 12:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdoTang (talk • contribs) 18:06, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Subject has not held any role that would confer an automatic presumption of notability just because he exists, and the article is still referenced to a mixture of primary sources that aren't support for notability at all, with short blurbs and glancing namechecks of his existence within articles that aren't about him for the purposes of getting him over WP:GNG, which is not the kind of sourcing we're looking for. GNG is not just "count the number of webpages that can be found with his name in them, and keep him if he surpasses an arbitrary number" — it tests sources for their type, their depth, their geographic range and the context of what they're covering the person for, and not every possible "source" is necessarily always a notability-building source. Bearcat (talk) 00:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete If being Very Badly Written were a deletion reason, this article would certainly qualify. Now it has to do with qualifying for deletion only on notability grounds: I can't see a single thing that even suggest notability. Fails WP:GNG / WP:BIO. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:25, 8 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Not Delete Subject has notability biography. The person has General Secretary of Muslim Youth League INDIA, And he has Pro Bono Lawyer in india he also a politician from the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/cpm-flouting-norms-in-appointing-cu-staff-p-k-firos/articleshow/78268378.cms he also UDF Candidate in Constituency of Tanur ( Kerala Legislative Assembly ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Msp7com (talk • contribs)
 * None of which are, in and of themselves, reasons why a person would get a Wikipedia article. Verifying that he exists as a person who has jobs is not sufficient. Bearcat (talk) 14:43, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd invite, and  to review the coverage on him. --Soman (talk) 12:59, 10 April 2021 (UTC) I strong support this article for Indian Politician Because He is already serving General Secretary of Indian Muslim Youth League organization, and he also Lawyer, Social worker and Founder Of White Guard Volunteers (Kerala India) in Kerala,affiliation of Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/cpm-flouting-norms-in-appointing-cu-staff-p-k-firos/articleshow/78268378.cms he also UDF Candidate in Constituency of Tanur ( Kerala Legislative Assembly ) election result coming May 2nd 2021, https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2019/feb/12/p-k-firoz-alleges-illegal-postings-in-kirtads-1937530.html
 * Keep - whilst PK Firos might not currently hold any public office to give automatic pass per WP:NPOL, there is definitely WP:SIGCOV to pass WP:GNG by any standards. In regards to PK Firos, there are plenty of articles in mainstream media on him, articles about the various scandals and disputes he's involved in and his election campaign ( currently ongoing ) has high public profile (have a look for example at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQF05durpoM ). In fact even in the last 24h there are multiple news stories on him in relation to the latest Supreme Court ruling. To recap, per WP:SIGCOV, "A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject," below a selection, by no means exhaustive, which illustrates that such coverage exists;
 * Comment:Significant coverage is that when a person does some notable work or a series of notable work over a period of years, independent media sources, such as newspapers, magazines etc, should provide detailed coverage about the subject in the form of biography article in detail talking about the subject, his life and his notable works. We would need these type of sources. As I can see there is nothing like that merits an article, even if combine all the sources. All of them are about some allegations, scams and controversies. I cannot say these all makes him pass GNG Kichu🐘 Need any help? 13:30, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment, - take  for example. This is clearly a) non-trivial mention - PK Firos is the main subject of the article (along with another IUML leader), b) reliable secondary source - IBC24 is a mainstream news outlet, c) independent from the subject - yup. There is absolutely no policy stating that only hagiographic works should be accepted in assessing WP:SIGCOV. A person who is the subject of multiple articles across multiple medias can definitely pass WP:GNG. --Soman (talk) 13:51, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: May be can analyse the sources better than anyone. They have rescued plenty of articles in the past. Pinging Beccaynr for an expert opinion. May be this will ger rescued. Regards. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 13:56, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: Moreover, although I think we have plenty of examples of in-depth coverage on PK Firos, we can also note the following wording in Notability (people) "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." --Soman (talk) 14:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Soman, or anyone participating in this discussion, per WP:BASIC and WP:PSTS, can you please identify WP:THREE sources that offer WP:SECONDARY context and/or commentary about Firos? Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 16:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - User:RoySmith/Three best sources (WP:THREE) is a user space essay, not a policy. By capping SIGCOV at three, it effectively contradicts the very spirit of WP:BASIC and Notability (people) (quoted above, "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability."). That said, I'd say all the links about marked as non-trivial mentions, in reliable source and independent from subject may qualify. I'd say, , would be a good start. --Soman (talk) 19:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I know it is WP:ONLYESSAY, and my purpose in referencing it is in the context of this discussion, e.g. That guy wants to help me get the article kept. I am hoping that you or someone else can point to WP:SECONDARY coverage that contains an author's analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources, because per WP:PSTS, Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability. The first source does not appear to have much depth - it mentions allegations, that they are denied, and that Firoz has a lawyer, and this is reported in the context of an election. The second source (translated title: Case filed against two leaders for embezzling deposit funds to help Kathua victim's family) appears to be a video that I cannot access, but based on the title, may be routine reporting, similar to the third source. My own research has not turned up secondary coverage, but it has been a more limited review than what has been documented above. Beccaynr (talk) 20:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - sometimes we have to see the forest, in spite of the trees. We have here an article subject who has been involved in multiple affairs, scandals and legal disputes, around which all major news outlets have coverage. His election campaign has high profile, and receives plenty of coverage across multiple news outlets. When he visits a football game, it is reported by major news outlets. When he comments on an issue, it is reported in major news outlets. He is a frequent participant in news broadcasts, commenting on a variety of issues. His notability is clearly not linked to a single event, but is effectively a prominent public personality. To be clear, if the article subject was American or British we wouldn't have had this conversation. --Soman (talk) 23:22, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * When he visits a football game, it is reported by major news outlets; these type of things are just routine coverage. If a politician sneeze or cough these days, may be some newspapers would report that! Thats the current scenario. We cannot have an article for a person who is getting routine or incidentil coverage. And its not him alone, who is a frequent participant in news broadcasts. Even some local politicians do that. Do we have an article for all of them? Kichu🐘 <i style="color:green">Need any help?</i> 06:59, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Just a quick note. WP:ROUTINE is a notability guideline for events not individuals. If a person is repeatedly covered in media, hundreds of times across platforms and topics, the person is sufficiently notable to warrant a standalone wikipedia article. The coverage doesn't need to be extraordinary or hagiographic. And yes, if "some local politicians" have this degree of notability, they should have standalone articles. WP:GNG is based on the notion that "[a] topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject,". --Soman (talk) 11:29, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I cannot find any single thing to claim the notability of this subject. Kichu🐘 <i style="color:green">Need any help?</i> 12:17, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete In my limited experience building source assessment tables, I try to focus on the strongest sources with the most significant, in-depth and secondary coverage, because as noted above, this is needed to establish notability per the guidelines. I am also careful with the Times of India per WP:TOI, especially for politics, because The Times of India is considered to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable. It tends to have a bias in favor of the Indian government. I have asked for and looked for secondary coverage of Firoz, but none appears to have been produced and I have not been able to locate any. Firoz does not appear to meet WP:NPOL, because that guideline states in a footnote, A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists, and without sufficient sources to establish WP:NPOL and limited secondary coverage found to establish his notability as a politician per WP:BASIC, (such as this), I do not see a basis for this article at this time. Beccaynr (talk) 03:11, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but in what way does WP:TOI play a role here? Is there any claim done here that has been challenged as factually incorrect? --Soman (talk) 12:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * By my quick count, there appear to be ten TOI sources listed in the source table. Per WP:BASIC, People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject. (emphasis added). And per WP:RS, Editors must take particular care when writing biographical material about living persons. The Times of India sources therefore do not seem to be a significant support for notability per the relevant guidelines. Beccaynr (talk) 13:42, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I was unaware of WP:TOI, and somewhat perplexed by it. I know ToI as one of the main national newspapers in India, and it is hardly the The Sun. From their Wikipedia article there are concerns on paid news, but that hardly applies in this scenario. Are there are any claims whatsoever in this discussion that you feel are unreliable or outlandish? --Soman (talk) 23:51, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * From my view, it is not a question of any particular claim in this discussion, it is whether the source can be used to support notability per Wikipedia guidelines, and based on my experience and WP:TOI, TOI does not appear to be a significant support. Beccaynr (talk) 00:43, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * not delete he is currently strong and popular political leader in Kerala politics from right side UDF and ( Indian Union Muslim League

https://dubaivartha.com/2019/02/youth-league-general-secretary-in-sharjah/

[P.K. Firos]] related news (last 2 days ) https://english.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/news/kerala/jaleel-resigned-as-he-had-no-other-choice-says-pk-firos-1.5590685

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/cm-pinarayi-accountable-pk-firos-whose-allegation-led-minister-jaleel-s-resignation-147080

https://www.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/news/kerala/p-k-firos-against-k-t-jaleel-1.5590630

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/the-minister-who-courted-a-series-of-controversies/articleshow/82055421.cms

User:Msp7com 06:13, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment:, please stop your REFBOMBING and as a creator of this page, reply to the issues shown by others. Kichu🐘 <i style="color:green">Need any help?</i> 06:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - what a mess. 's assessment is spot on. Kudos also to  to making me smile. And more kudos to  for their source assessment. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NPOL.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 01:28, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I do not have a problem without knowledge of this article. PK Firos is a member of a well-known political party in India ( Indian Union Muslim League ) and a prominent politician and General Secretary of the Indian Muslim Youth League. He is also a member of the main opposition party ( UDF )in the Indian state of Kerala, in a democratic manner against the LDF, the ruling party of Kerala He is also the leader of the agitation, April 6, 2021 In the last Kerala Assembly Elections, the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) contested the much-discussed Tanur constituency in Kerala.The result is due on May 2, 2021, and if he wins, it will be in Wikipedia Notable. It is hoped that this article will continue to be Without deleting until the policy is received by the eligible MLA office. Let's go, enable the Wikipedia notable label I request that his work be considered in this Wikipedia deletion discussion with the status of Lawyer User:Msp7com 16 April 2021 12:19 (UTC)
 * Comment Kichu🐘
 * Delete Per 's assessment of sources. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Not Delete I see you again The person mentioned in this article The following By 4 things Wikipedia Notable seems to be eligible in the people category
 * 1) 1. Known in India He is the general secretary of a youth organization (Indian Muslim Youth League
 * 2) 2. This person is a well known politician in the Indian state of Kerala who sits in opposition UDF|and constantly controls the ruling party in a democratic manner.
 * 3) 3. He is a lawyer.


 * 1) 4. . He is also a member of a legally registered party ( Indian Union Muslim League) He is contesting for the Kerala Legislative Assembly and is awaiting the result The result will come on May 2, 2021.

I do not agree with deleting this article for the above reasons This can be discussed further, or Article improvement can be made on the basis of the reference already given to the article Continue to thank those who participated in the discussion ☕️ User:Msp7com 01:53, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.