Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PRO-CUT International


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was  delete. Secondary sources are not substantial, fails WP:CORP. Jayjg (talk) 19:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

PRO-CUT International

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Non-notable. Single award is one of thousands awarded every year. Article's author has worked or still works at PRO-CUT. Rklawton (talk) 20:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - this article is one of a series of articles about Pro-Cut that has been created, most of which were deleted for either CSD-A7 or CSD-G11. Creator is an employee of Pro-Cut and has a COI. No assertion of notability. (GregJackP (talk) 20:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC))

Company is of same notability as the rest of the companies in it's category. rklawton and GregJackP are free to expand it or edit. Note Hunter Engineering and Just Brakes have same basic article formula.

Said users are the same who deleted past articles and do not have a Neutral Point of View about the company. Article is simple and non-biased. No adverts or spam.


 * Clarification - Thanks for clearing that up, GregJackP. COI: I do work as an in-field technician for EBS Automotive equipment. EBS has been a partner company to PRO-CUT International for 20 years now. I do not have a salary paid to me by PRO-CUT International. I have worked on their equipment (and other equipment made by: AAMCO-Coates, Kwik-way, Prime, Myers Equipment, MATCO, Snap-On and others) in the field for 5 years. I don't have a conflict of interest because I don't receive any compensation for promoting PRO-CUT or any other funds or considerations from them. I'm a guy that fixes things when they break, regarless of who made it. I have been an ASE certified under-car technician for 17 years now.


 * Clarification - I don't have the ability to delete articles, only to put out my opinion on the appropriateness of an article for inclusion in Wikipedia. This one hasn't shown notability.  Secondly, I don't have to have an NPOV - I am not an article, I am an editor, and I am not editing the article, so my POV is moot.  Third, Rklawton, although an admin, has taken a position on the article - typically admins that do so do not close or delete the article after they have done so.  Fourth, we are not discussing the inclusion or deletion of other articles here, we are talking about Pro-Cut.  Fifth, the creator has not addressed the COI issues.  (GregJackP (talk) 20:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC))


 * Delete - CSD-G11, non-notability, unable to verify claim that it is a "multinational" company using a secondary source. Other articles mentioned above should also be deleted if they look anything like this one. Jisakujien (talk) 20:30, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - Article is clearly being improved, no longer reads like an advert. Still unsure as to notability.  Jisakujien (talk) 14:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Secondary source: English Brake Corporation See below point#3 on page. PRO-CUT International is multinational. Feel free to edit if thought otherwise. Chad595 (talk) 20:34, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - I stand by CSD-G11. If company is truly notable and verifiable, and the article is updated to reflect this, I may change my opinion (note, this is not a vote, nor am I an experienced enough editor to really help you).  That said, I do not feel the topic is sufficiently encyclopedic to warrant my time fixing it. Jisakujien (talk) 20:45, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * G11 "On November 15, 2008, the Department of Defense presented the Patriot Award to PRO-CUT International. The Patriot Award recognizes employers for their support of employee participation in the National Guard and Reserve Force." reads like PR, and there are absolutely no secondary sources anywhere. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 21:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - The ESGR Patriot award is given to basically anyone that requests it. The citizen-soldier/employee fills out an on-line form and the ESGR sends the company a printed certificate. Before I retired, we used to encourage all of our unit members to submit their employers for the award. It is not especially significant. (GregJackP (talk) 21:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC))
 * Comment - I'm a multinational "partnership" because one of my clients is in London! And no, I'm not notable, either. Rklawton (talk) 21:21, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Check out Pro-Cut Europe This is the website for the UK office. The partnership with English Brake Corp is NOT what I was referring to when writing "multinational". PRO-CUT also has offices in Canada. I'll get that address if you need it, but the UK office by far suffices. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chad595 (talk • contribs) 21:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Any ESGR Patriot Award references have been removed from the article on advice from Ten Pound Hammer. Thanks, though, for your insight on the award, GregJackP.

Chad595 (talk) 21:47, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:50, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * MANY thanks to Eastmain for contributing reliable sources and citations to the article.


 * In view of the good contributions from many users that improved this article, I nominate to close discussion and remove delete template. Any thoughts on how to improve further?

Chad595 (talk) 07:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The advice you seek is here. The improvements made to the article so far in no way demonstrate "significant coverage". Rklawton (talk) 13:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep' but the article needs significant improvement. Checking Google News, there is some secondary source coverage of this company and its products in national trade publications and in various newspapers. There's not a lot of it, but probably enough to establish sufficient notability for an article.  The article as written doesn't really reflect that coverage very well, and is a pretty poor article. But, being a lousy article isn't reason to delete it.Fladrif (talk) 13:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is a business that manufactures and supplies automotive service equipment including an on-the-car brake lathe.  Any trade publications that cover such a business are of "limited interest and circulation", and as such can't confer notability under the business notability guideline.  Sources like Fleet Equipment or Professional Tool & Equipment News don't have the kind of audience, and cover their trades in fine detail: coverage in that kind of source does not confer notability. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete anyway. Sources aren't all that substantial. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 17:37, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note - this "international" company has 34 employees and under $20M (USD) in sales. Rklawton (talk) 18:00, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Note - rklawton, I think the figures you are quoting are domestic. There are 34 "employees" of PRO-CUT International who manufacture the equipment and work in the office. There are about 190 contract employees of their subsidiary company, Brake Solutions, Inc. Note they have the same address in NH . Brake Solutions, Inc. operates as the official distributor of PRO-CUT equipment to Vocational/Tech Schools and to the US Government. Note that are a GSA Official Contractor.


 * PRO-CUT International does have offices in at least 2 other countries (already mentioned) and they do have salaried employees who perform office duties in those countries. PRO-CUT International has partnership agreements with about 300 distribution businesses aside from Brake Solutions, Inc., who handle everything after the initial sale. Not to mention all of the equipment companies who actually sell and repair the equipment. All in all, in my estimation, about 3000 people worldwide are closely affiliated with PRO-CUT International. So, yes, "PRO-CUT International" only employs about 30 or 40 people and only has about $18M (USD) in direct-to-consumer domestic sales annually. But, like many things, that's not the whole picture. Just a thought.

Chad595 (talk) 09:31, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. There is insufficient information or analysis in secondary sources to warrant an encyclopedia article on a manufacturer of on-car brake lathes. Number of employees and suchlike are completely irrelevant to WP:Notability. Abductive  (reasoning) 01:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.