Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paging Grace


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was '''Delete - WP:SNOW close, sockpuppet and master blocked. Dreadstar ☥   23:31, 16 February 2012 (UTC)'''

Paging Grace

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable, unsigned band. No coverage found in the usual RS-hunt, and fails to meet any of the criteria of WP:BAND Liv it ⇑ Eh?/What? 18:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related page. It is the "debut EP" of the band, which was only distributed electronically. Also non-notable. Bundled together because if one goes, the other should too. Liv it ⇑ Eh?/What? 19:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - The article claims notability by stating awards the band won, but I'm not finding any references to back these claims up. In fact, when I actually searched for the awards in question, the only hits I was getting back were to this article, and to the band's own website.  It fails WP:Band as well as WP:RS.  Rorshacma (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - There are plenty of unsigned bands featured on Wikipedia which have achieved only a fraction of the success which Paging Grace has. In terms of a label, Paging Grace is an LLC, as they are an independent artist that sells international with sales reaching thousands. Paging Grace was voted Best Band by the Long Island Press in both 2008 and 2009. Their debut EP, "All You're Made Of" saw over 5,000 in digital copies sold (this does not include sales accumulated via hard copies, sold at shows and through the band's website). The album's single "Leave" impacted radio in January 2008 in the "Hot Adult Contemporary" genre and was statistically well recieved in the Los Angeles, Dallas, and New York markets, therefore making the band a nationally known act. The band was awarded "Hot AC Most Added New Artist" and reached #1 on the "Independent Music Network". The band has chosen to thoroughly establish a name for themselves prior to signing down to a label. Paging Grace is one of the most, if not, the most, established and well-reputed band on Long Island.
 * Lastly, Paging Grace DOES, in fact, meet the criteria to be listed on Wikipedia. Check WP:BAND #9. Once again, Paging Grace was voted Best Band by the Long Island Press in BOTH 2008 and 2009. The band was awarded "Hot AC Most Added New Artist" and reached #1 on the "Independent Music Network". It simply says the band had to win one or place in a major competition, which in truth, they have won four. Not only did they place in these competitions, but they won all four of them. The band also qualifies for WP:BAND #11 and #12 as they were broadcasted on New York radio under the Hot Adult Contemporary genre. Just recently, on Saturday, February 4th, 2012, the band was broadcasted live on "Classic Rock 103.9 WRCN"'s website for their show at the Vail-Leavitt Musical Hall in Riverhead, New York. Please do not remove this band's page from Wikipedia. A great deal of time and effort has been put in to making it possible and gathering up accurate, pertinent information. Thank you. Guitarrock165 (talk) 19:37, 15 February 2012 (UTC)guitarrock165
 * As I noted in my above comment, I can find no reliable third party sources that mention the awards claimed. Even searching the Long Island Press' archives, I have yet to find mention of the band.  If you can find reliable third party sources, please add them to the article, which will greatly help your cause.  Otherwise, its very hard to argue that any of the awards can be considered "major competitions" without the references to back it up. Rorshacma (talk) 19:45, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm going to put the following link in my URL then. http://www.sonicbids.com/epk/epk.aspx?epk_id=103954&submission_id=&poll_id=&name=preview&skin_id=2 This includes reviews from three 3rd party sources, one of which is AOL city guide. Once again, please do not delete this page as much time and effort has been put into it to make it possible. Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guitarrock165 (talk • contribs) 19:52, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Nothing Guitarrock165 has shown is reputable. They would have to chart on Billboard, not some chart published in someone's basement. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The band's statistic do not come from a basement, by any means. Rather, these particular references were toward AOL city guide's reviews and ratings. This source is a statistically reinforced, reputable reference which I have now cited twice on this page. Coming back to the argument about not being signed, Paging Grace is a LLC, as an independent artist that sells international with over thousands of sales. Paging Grace's 2 major EPs are available via iTunes.

Paging Grace's single, "Leave" from their EP, All You're Made Of, was featured in an episode of MTV's the Hills, which aired April 28th, 2008. This complies with the WP:Band #10 as an appearance in a TV series. Here's the requirement: Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E for further clarifications)

I believe the information I have disclosed (specfically with Paging Grace's music appearing on MTV's "The Hills") is sufficient to prove this page as being a reliable, credible, and most of all, worthy of being a Wikipedia page. Can you please close this discussion so that the band's page remains and I can delete the "subject to deletion" box at the top of its page? Thank you.

Within the editing box of the band page, the coding says the page was ruled to "keep" so I deleted the "subject to deletion" box. When I went back on the page, the box showed up again. Can the administrator please verify the decision and delete the "subject to deletion" box to clean up the page and make it look better? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guitarrock165 (talk Guitarrock165 (talk) 04:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)• contribs) 21:42, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep After doing research of my own, Guitarrock165's descriptions on the page are well supported. This band does meet the criteria for inclusion into the Wikipedia community as one of their songs was included in a hit television series (The Hills which aired on MTV) and they have won several awards in New York State. Keyy974 (talk) 04:11, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment It seems that Keyy974's only contribution to Wikipedia upon the creation of the account was to vote to keep this article, and to create multiple "Keep" votes at that. Not only is voting multiple times not proper wikipedia behavior, but I'd say this would almost warrant a sockpuppetry investigation.  I've taken the liberty of removing the multiple duplicated votes, and I hope this behavior isn't repeated.Rorshacma (talk) 05:57, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sockpuppet investigations/Guitarrock165 opened... this stuff annoys me. Liv it ⇑ Eh?/What? 15:51, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Checkuser confirms socking... admin action pending.  Liv it ⇑ Eh?/What? 21:30, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.