Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paisley Magic Circle


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:43, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Paisley Magic Circle

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Local club with no wider claim to fame. All references are primary sources with all but one to the club website. A search here has produced nothing worthwhile. Fails WP:ORG. Finally, there are generous chunks copied from the club website so also a copyvio issue. Delete. Just Chilling (talk) 20:59, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:35, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:35, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Dear Just Chilling:

I think you are wrong wanting to delete our page based on a search in the news section of Google and because a lot of the text comes from our website. It seems to imply that in order to have a page in wikipedia is not enough to be one of the oldest clubs in United Kingdom, be one of the founding clubs of the Scottish Association for Magical Societies, have more than 20 members in the London Magic Circle and the International Brotherhood of Magicians -one of them is even a FISM Champion-, as well as be extremely active in Charities and events (like the Paisley Spree which appears in your search), or by being the entertainers for many children charity events like the Variety Club Christmas Party or the Variety Club Outting Day were we entertain thousands of handicapped kids for free. Also, we are part of the last 80 years of the history of the City of Paisley, even some members entertaining the allied troops waiting in Greenock for D-day during World War II.

I think your search is flawed, as it just show news which have been properly positioned, which require proper SEO skills, something you usually find in paid businesses that have not a lot to gain for following a magic club but not in enthusiasts or amateur pages. Actually, if you do other searches like this one here you will find hundreds of references to us and our members, some in our facebook page, and many others on other pages like this one in the Daily Record about one of our older members, as members usually get more news coverage than the club itself, even if we all keep telling reporters about our club.

Regarding the content, is quite normal that a lot is copied from our website, as they have mainly been written by one of the more important historians of magic of the last century: Jim Cuthbert, who has been a member of PMC since the fifties. Now is in a Nursing home with dementia, but when he was diagnosed -and was still lucid- donated his more than 500 booklets on the history of Magic in Scotland to the National Library of Scotland, as you can read here.

So, Do you really want to close our page because a flawed search and your own opinion that we are 'just' a local club?

We are one of the most important magic clubs in Scotland and United Kingdom, which attract visits of the most famous magicians in the world, who come to visit when they attend BlackPool Magic Convention. We are an important part of the history of magic in Scotland and United Kingdom, so we have to be in Wikipedia so historians can document themselves about us, and enthusiast of magic can do too. Also for people wanting to learn magic to find us, read about us and wanting to join!

I hope you understand that you made a mistake wanting to close it.

Thanks. Guilleamodeo (talk) 02:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guilleamodeo (talk • contribs) 00:14, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Asked about my affiliation and interest I responded the below message:

Dear Just Chilling,

Like you ask about my employer and afffilitaion, let me tell you that I am not employed or paid by anyone to do this. My name is Guillermo Amodeo, I am this one here, a member of Paisley Magic Circle who has been Secretary and member of the Committee, and from today also a former enthusiast of Wikipedia and a former donor.

To respond to you, let me tell you that I am the only one in the club with skills to mantain the wikipedia page, and we do not have the resources to pay anyone else to do it. I would understand that there was a conflict of interest if it was an article about my businesses, but the article is written about a non-profit club so people interested on it will find information quickly and easily, which is the use that one does to an Encyclopedia, Isn't Wikipedia one of them? This is not a website, nor an advertisement platform, is the encyclopedia page of a club whose committee's decides what goes on it, so I cannot possibly think what is written there that would be of interest to me personally and not in the interest of people wanting to know about the club. Actually, Would not it be also a conflict of interest to pay someone to write the page? I could influence him or her by firing them if they do not write what I like.

You are hiding behind a nick, finding reasons one after another to delete our page, one more absurd than the next, so I am now convinced that this is an exercise of 'we have too many pages and need to delete some' and we happen to be just one of the smallest fish in the tank, so we are doomed for you to keep the pages about people that become famous in a reality show or for behaving bad in television, at the expense of those who contribute to culture or history like we do. Go ahead and delete the page, that way you can keep your pages about TV personalities growing, but with these policies all you are doing is killing the credibility of Wikipedia, as it is as good as gone for me and for the many like us whose pages will share fate with ours. Of course I will publish in our Facebook page and website why we do not have a Wikipedia page anymore -people have the right to know what happened to it-. You can also delete the page I wrote about my film director brother -another conflict of interest I guess, even if he is a famous person in Spain-, you can also delete my account as I do not want to be part of a cynical organization that accuses me of conflict of interest when is acting on their own interest, rather than the interest of history and culture. This is not an encyclopedia anymore.

P.S. Will you also delete my public domain from wikimedia?

Regards, Guilleamodeo (talk) 02:51, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I was told by the person who wants to delete our page that he/she -I am not sure Just is a girl or a boy name- that cannot delete the logo becuase is nto an admin in wikimedia. I answered this.

Dear Just Chilling,

I have not interest whatsoever in deleting the image, as is not mine anymore. I donated it to the public -in case you have not noticed it-. The club has a right on saying how people can use the logo, but anyone in need of it can get it from there because I made that drawing public domain.

What I would like is for you to tell me when the page would be deleted to say to everyone in the club. I would also like to tell you that this policy will kill Wikipedia pretty quickly, and when Wikipedia is gone for lack of donations and interest, our club will still be alive. And even after the club disappears -If it does in lets say 20 years-, it will still exist in the history books and the Cuthbert Collection in the National Library of Scotland.

P.S.- If you are asking yourself about it, the decline you are seeing on funding is the result of asking for money with the argument of keep being free -as in freedom- but not extending that freedom or fairness to your users.

Have a good day.Guilleamodeo (talk) 19:44, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Copyright violations. Fails WP:GNG. I searched Google, -News, -Newspapers, NYT, and also the archives of The Herald and The Scotsmen, reliable newspapers from Scotland. No mentions "Paisley Magic Circle". Sources mentioned above are mentions only of the club (in several cases, Mr. so-and-so, who is a member of The Paisley Magic Circle) Please read WP:RS to find out what kind of sources are needed to keep an article. Aurornisxui (talk) 20:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

You can delete anytime now. I have already announced that you are closing our page in our Facebook pages here and here

Have a nice day and good luck keeping wikipedia alive. Guilleamodeo (talk) 20:34, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete No doubt it's a wonderful club but it does not meet basic criteria for notability. Quoting from WP:ORG, "No matter how "important" editors may personally believe an organization to be, it should not have a stand-alone article in Wikipedia unless reliable sources independent of the organization have discussed it".Glendoremus (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as a non-notable organization, with the article created and expanded by one of its members, with resulting COI issues. --Lockley (talk) 05:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.