Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakelika (V.A.)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Pakelika (V.A.)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I had redirected this unreferenced BLP of a non-notable artist to his former employer, but this was reverted without discussion. Artist has two albums, neither of which seem to have charted or to otherwise have generated any coverage.

A Google News search indicates that we are not dealing with an artist here is notable by our standards. Note: he has two albums with a company that has a Wikipedia article, Suburban Noize Records, but that's hardly an impressive outfit, in my opinion. Drmies (talk) 05:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, does not appear to meed any notability criterion. A protected redirect to Kottonmouth Kings probably adds some value to Wikipedia. VQuakr (talk) 05:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * His sophomore album supported his candidacy for the 2008 presidential elections, and the band "Disfunction-Ill" that Pakelika is a part of is in the process of being made, along with another album on Suburban Noize Records. There are multiple sources from were I gathered the information presented on the page.- Diversity8 (talk) 06:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete – As far as I can see, Pakelika doesn’t fill any of the criteria for Notability (music). We might debate about the notability of Suburban Noize Records and, thereby, is Pakelika associated with “an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of whom are notable”. Wiki agrees that the company is notable, and some of its artists are too – their articles are allowed on Wiki after all aren’t they ? But Pakelika’s association with notables doesn’t mean that notability rubs-off on him. So I think a Suburban Noize Records “are they / aren’t they notable" discussion would be irrelevant. Is Pakelika notable under the terms of Wikipedia:Notability (music) ? – No. Acabashi (talk) 06:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Google news archive search for his name and that of his band shows 19 results. Most of the major newspapers listed require you to pay to read those articles so I can't tell how much coverage this one person got.
 * Newstimes mentions him and his album briefly.
 * ''In other news
 * Pakelika, the 6-foot-8 "visual assassin" who dances on stage and has been described as half man, half machine, will be dropping a new album late this summer as Disfunction-ill. The album, called "The Invisible Movement," will feature collaborations with Grand Vanacular, who released a fresh hip-hop album a few years back on Suburban Noize. ''


 * Celebstoner gives him significant coverage. They might not count as a reliable source though.  Can anyone read what the major newspapers listed have in them?   D r e a m Focus  06:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes: nothing. The hits you pointed at are concert announcements and brief reviews. There is no significant discussion, and existence ≠ notability. Drmies (talk) 14:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I just found out and added in his Biography that one of his songs, "Late Fees", charted on the Hip Hop charts for Burbank, CA. - Thanks a lot for all the help- Diversity8 (talk) 07:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:33, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a list of sources;

- Diversity8 (talk) 09:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/The-Kottonmouth-Kings-are-all-fired-up-245938.php#page-2
 * 2) http://www.celebstoner.com/201009224899/blogs/pakelika/pakelika-speaks.html
 * 3) http://www.celebstoner.com/20071026396/news/celebstoner-news/pakelika-for-president.html
 * 4) http://www.reverbnation.com/pakelika#!/main/bes_chart?artist_id=276256&genre=Hip%20Hop&genre_geo=Local
 * 5) http://www.pakelika10.com/
 * 6) http://www.suburbannoizerecords.com/?page=album/view/168
 * 7) http://www.pakelika10.com/News/PAKELIKA-4-PRESIDENT-/0E5E5FFFF00F2A63A001600A118AA
 * Delete per nom. and others. The above list contains blogs and primary sources. Apparently no reliable secondary sources to be found. Does not meet general notability guideline.--JayJasper (talk) 19:52, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding ref link verifiability: Pakelika article’s External links at the moment are facebook, myspace,  LastFM,  or self-refer links back to References. Ref links are to Reverbnation  (anyone seeking self-promotion can attach themselves to this web site  - as dubious for proof of notability as myspace), subject’s self-promoting web site, or  subject’s promotional record company web site -  all these not independent from the subject as is necessary for proof of notability.  The "Hip Hop charts for Burbank” mentioned are Reverbnation web site charts, here.

The two linked sites we then have to look at are newstimes.com and celebstoner.com. The newstime.com interview, here, with band members, (sans Pakelika), mentions Pakelika. Unfortunately, “where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves”, this self-referencing cannot be used as independent evidence. The celebstoner article, here, is  “Pakelika's exclusive blog about what's been going on”. Again the subject talks about himself, and again self-referencing rules-out the source as independent evidence.

None of the above links provide disinterested viable reference and should be disreguarded as proof of such.

User:Dream Focus’s celebstoner link, here, also has parts where Pakelika self-references. Where he doesn’t, the web site declares, under the heading of "Pakelika for President!": ''“Pakelika, the Kottonmouth Kings’ "Visual Assassin," has announced his entry into the 2008 presidential campaign. The Top CelebStoner joins TV talk-show host Stephen Colbert and actor Fred Thompson as celebrity candidates. The 6-for-7 Pakelika, who wears a mask on stage while dancing robotically to the band's hip-hop/punk-rock music and puffing from a vaporizer...”''. Is there an independent viable source to show that this talk show espisode took place on Network TV? - I can't find it, but others might have better luck. My view on this is that celebstoner.com is biased, being a web site unambiguously promoting the use of a certain drug, reviewing a user of the same drug.

Proposal if article is to be saved: All in-line cites to the non-viable sources would be removed, effectively all in-line cites in the article. Any links that exist now to be under External links, but not those existing that run against External links protocol, see External links. The intro sentence and Biography section, where nothing is evidenced, removed totally, and replaced with a simple standard intro sentence - name, where born, birth name, and very brief unbiased description. A Career Section would provide any verified information if there is enough of it, but no unsupported fancruft, blogese, promotion, quotes, hyberbole or original research. The Pakelika for President section would go, being completely unreferenced text. Mention of his candidacy for President can be made - there will be a few links there. Effectively, to save this article, it would need to be reduced to a stub. But I still think Delete.

However, see Notability (music) – it is all that matters here for a judgement on deletion. Acabashi (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.